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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
Anonymous3559
Explorer C
Kevin Smith's response to this blog: http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393 Yeah, we won't use Southwest again now. Happy to spread the word.
Anonymous1660
Explorer C
As repeatedly demonstrated by SW Airlines, apology and corporate self-righteous justification just don't mix. This is becoming painful to watch. I hope this apology phobia stems from fear of mass legal recourse and not simple pigheaded stupidity. A simple "We're sorry. Our bad. It won't happen again." could've turned this PR disaster into one narrowly averted and a potentially costly lesson learned cheap. It's not too late, but SW seem decided on following the road to ruin on this issue. Just to clarify for the opinionated morons walking in on this story late with no prior knowledge and a lot to say. The issue is not the policy itself, but the callous and capricious execution of said policy.
Russell1
Explorer C
I'm not fat, but I'll be boycotting Southwest. I'll be encouraging my whole family to boycott as well. Weak apology. Weak.
Anonymous3841
Explorer C
Airline seats are snug as it is even when an average size person is next to you so why over the last couple of years is the overweight issue just now coming up?? I will tell you why because the airlines found a sure fire way to make sure that flight is sold out of seats not necessarily sold out for capacity. I am not an overweight person and am not condoning those whose decisions have allowed them to become overweight but it also isn't always a choice for some to be overweight. They are already looked down upon when people just look at them so hey lets point out the fat person on the flight and draw more attention to them. SERIOUSLY THESE SEATS ARE SMALL AS IT IS HAVE THE AIRLINE EMPLOYEES EVER SAT IN THESE SEATS WITH SOMEONE SITTING NEXT TO THEM, it sucks!! So maybe the airlines should sacrifice some bucks and make the seats a bit bigger when they assemble the damn things and make all paying customers comfy! I would really like to know how the airlines accomodated these overweight people 20 yrs ago cause REALLY the seats haven't gotten any bigger. Maybe the skinny people should have to by the extra seat if they are so worried about whose sitting next to them. Quite frankly I would rather be next to the pleasantly plump person than the skinny stuck up one who is going to bitch no matter how big you are.
Mike_-_Buffalo_
Explorer C
SWA sucks! This company and your sanctimony about service and comfort are transparent to your real value of hate and discrimination. From clothing to looks to size to types of people SWA shows a clear lack of intelligence from the ground up. When you build respect, loyalty, and dignity into treating your customers as you claim to have done so for your employees and your catchy, but BS, commercials show then you can truly start building a company of respect. Your policies and programs, not limited to this situation, are ever changing to be self-serving and meet some employee-centric practices at your company. As a FREQUENT business travel I will glady spend more to be treated with dignity and respect along with policies that are geared toward serving paying customers. I fell for your propaganda and lies once and for that I am sorry. I am not a fan of Southwest any longer, I wasn't before this, and I won't be until you start doing something good for passengers.
Top_Jimmy
Explorer C
What about people that need a shower? What about really noisy people? What about kids with dirty diapers? What about people with bad gas? There are many ways to intrude on another passenger's space, why is only physical intrusion by overweight people the only worry for Southwest?
Herb_Finn1
Explorer C
Kevin Smith has posted his latest (perhaps final?) comments on this subject on his latest blog. http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393?8224eae0 Again, why is Southwest not admiting he was NOT removed becuase of his weight!
HKL_FILMS
Explorer C
For anyone who just can't get it through their thick skulls, Kevin Smith does NOT require 2 seats to fly on an airplane. He has stated this numerous times to the point of redundancy. The man has no problem fitting into ONE seat on an airplane. Did you read that? Or do I have to write it again. ONE SEAT! Until SWA stops perpetuating this ridiculous lie, they will never find this issue resolved nor save face of any kind. KEVIN SMITH DOES NOT REQUIRE 2 SEATS TO FLY ON AN AIRPLANE. I hope you got it by now. You screwed up, Southwest. Admit it. You're still screwing up and trying to cover your ass. It won't work. Your PR campaign is insulting and in the end reflects your inconsideration for your customers. One last time, KEVIN SMITH DOES NOT REQUIRE 2 SEATS ON AN AIRPLANE. THUS HE IS IN NO WAY VIOLATING ANY SOUTHWEST AIRLINES RULE OR POLICY. He was ejected for reasons that had absolutely NOTHING to do with his weight. Period. Jeez...
Anonymous4424
Explorer C
A few things to comment about this unfortunate situation; 1.) if you are indeed "too Fat to Fly" and need to purchase an additional seat. How can you insure your customers who do so they even get the open seat next to them with an open seating policy? 2.) Also, I was told the seat rows towards the back of the plane are 2'' shorter in width than those towards the front, is this true? (This was told to me by a southwest flight attendent) 3.) What is the point on carrying seatbelt extenions if a customer who does fit into normal seatbelts/seats/armrests gets removed from the plane for "safety reasons" AKA "Too Fat" I myself fit into the seats on southwest (even the ones in the back)but i am also over weight and do realize there are some people that are complete slobs and would make sitting next to an unpleasant experience but the majority of overweight people out there try to be as conciderate as possible to others even though 99% of the time we dont get the same conciderations in return. I think it is unjust and descriminating what they (southwest) put Kevin Smith Through. I am glad though that it happend to a celb. so that what is probably common practice on Southwest can be brought to attention and it is good to see some attempt by Southwest to change policies to change dated guidelines from days before all those extra rows were added and seat sizes cut.
Heather14
Explorer C
For all the people so worried about the dangers posed by fat people flying, you clearly have no sense of perspective, which is really funny, considering the issue. I'm sorry you've been so inconvenienced by another human being... oh, or did you forget that that's a human being sitting next to you, and not a "tubby", a "lardo", a "fatty" or any of the other litany of dehumanizing, insulting, infantile terms I've seen around this story today? Safety issues are things like explosives, guns, knives, hijackers on airplanes. It's people who try to fly airplanes into structures that planes aren't meant to be flown into, trying to light themselves on fire in order to ignite the explosives they've smuggled in their underwear, or the infinitely more likely, equipment malfuctioning on the aircraft. In NONE of these scenarios does the size of the person sitting next to you have ANY EFFECT WHATSOEVER on if you will survive the flight or not. ZERO. NONE. If weight and balance is a safety concern, then weigh everyone and everything that goes onto the plane and strictly enforce luggage rules. (I've seen oversized duffles carried on and tried to be shoved into overhead compartments, into underseat space, and then just held in the passengers lap... not an instrument that a seat was purchased for... a piece of carry on luggage that didn't fit and wasn't stowed.) If it's not a safety issue, and it's a matter of customer courtesy, then apply it according to that standard: other large passengers are not ejected, despite impinging on other customers, and Smith tells us that another customer was publicly humiliated when there was no issue of her possibly impinging on another customer's space. This says that not only are the staff consistently rude to people (Not just Smith) but they're inconsistent with application of the policy... meaning this amounts to little more than high-school or junior high bullying. I stopped flying SWA several years ago when their application of this "25 year old policy" began to be enforced more than it had been before. It's clear that my choice to not fly with them has been a good one; their bullying tactics haven't changed. I'm just sorry to see so many people think that they should be applauded for inconsistent application of a policy that results in public humiliation of HUMAN BEINGS. Congratulations, bullies. You all suck.
The_girl_in_the
Explorer C
I'm sick and tired of this. I don't understand why Kevin Smith (who I have a lot of respect for in general, otherwise, and who acknowledged that he needed two seats by purchasing them for the original flight) got upset when the airline agreed with him by refusing to seat him in a single seat on the standby flight. But the responsibility should be shared equally -- neither Mr. Smith nor Southwest should have put him on a plane with a single seat remaining if he admittedly needed two seats! The armrest policy, while an admirable attempt at applying some obbjective measure to this problem, cannot be an argument used to trump the flight attendants' judgment. Their job is to enforce safety rules. I for one -- like many other people of smaller size -- am really glad that the Persons of Size policy is enforced on Southwest. On many flights, I end up sitting in a middle seat so that my husband or another taller passenger can have more legroom on the aisle. I'm okay with that, because when you switch with a tall guy and take the middle seat, he tends to be very courteous about the shared armrest. But I've also been forced on more than one occasion to spend three or four hours holding my arm across my body because the large person next to me is taking up the three inches of my seat where my arm would normally go. It's not a matter of not wanting to touch someone -- that's not even an option in these situations. I have friends and family who are large and are courteous enough to buy the extra seat, for their comfort as well as other passengers'. Yay for you, Southwest!
Dallas_FF
Explorer C
And I should add to all the fat-haters who have spewed bile here... there was a time for some people when sitting next to someone of a different color elicited the same response you are showing here. Think about that. To those who feel confident enough in their physique to randomly criticize strangers over the internet (yeah, that takes some guts! LOL), let's hope nothing changes in your life. Wouldn't want your outsides to start looking like your insides!
Xzist
Explorer C
Simply put, KEVIN WAS ABLE TO FIT IN YOUR SEATS AND YOUR COMPANY KICKED HIM OFF OF THE PLANE ANYWAY! And this letter implies that he could not fit. If your company spent as much energy being honest and caring for customers as it does being politically correct, this situation wouldn't even exist.
Sandra_Smith
Explorer C
The actions take toward Kevin Smith by SouthWest Airline was appauling and disgusting. If the airline has this policy it should be handled before a person boards the plane and is seated. He did not fit the criteria to be removed from the plane since he was able to lower the arm rest and buckle his belt without an extension. This was intentional humilation on the part of the airline and they were successful. Mr. Smith was escorted off of the plane like criminal or a sub human that did not deserve any respect simply because of his weight. I was extremely appauled when I read an article on this incident and then listened to Mr. Smith's pod cast. For those ppl that applaud the airline would you have the same attitude if this had been an african american being removed because they were black? This is discrimination yet ppl are agreeing with it and agreeing with this disguting behavior by the airline employees, which makes me even more sick. Adults have become school children chanting fatty fatty, and four eyes at ppl who wear glasses. This type of behavior is not only disturbing but it is appauling that it is encouraged and accepted as appropriate society behavior. As far as I am concerned I will never fly this air line and I will encourage all of my family and friends to not use it as well. An apology can never undo what occured nor the humilation that followed Mr. Smith as he was removed from your plane. If airlines were as willing to profile a could be terrorist like they do over weight ppl then air planes would be safer forms of transportation. Your air line is so concerned about safety but yet "shoe bombers" and "under wear bombers" are seated without question because they are slender. Simply amazing that the priorties of the air lines are centered on over weight ppl rather than real issues of safety. Personally I would feel safer on a plane filled with overweight ppl because to date not one terrorist has been fat they have all been slender. Get your priorities straight before your only passengers are the pilot, co-pilot, and the crew.
rs
Explorer C
Your response sucks. Good luck, you lost my business. I'm not a "fatty" either. .
Keenan_Leary
Explorer C
I for one am for Kevin Smith. I am 240lbs, and I CANNOT sit in those seats. Considering the fact my groomslady was 90lbs and barely fit into a SINGLE SEAT, how is ANYONE supposed to sit in that sardine can comfortably. I constantly see kids kicking adjacent seats, crawling OVER to their daddy's seat in front, and subsequent attitudes of "this is my chair, and I am dropping it as low I want". Half the time they knock my cup over to the point if I hadn't caught it or now fly with my hand on cup at ALL times, they are going to spill everything. You can no longer use laptops because when the person in front kicks all the way back, you cant open the screen more then 30 degrees, let alone get UP to go to the bathroom because your stuck between the armrest and the inconsiderate jerk in front of you. I'm sorry, WHERE is the "Safety" and "Personal Space" concerns there?!? It's YOUR PR nightmare, own up to it, because fanning the flames by feigning ignorance is what causes worse problems. Fessing up shows you understand what you did and you'll try to correct it, otherwise, you really suck at your jobs.
Anonymous1640
Explorer C
Fuck you Rick.
TheSpinster
Explorer C
I would like every reader to take a moment to consider the actual issue before s/he responds with yet another, "I'm normal and I've had a fat person encroach on my airplane seat before," response. I have been following this event fairly close and not once have I heard Smith or even a supporter assert that he believes he should be able to take up part of another passenger's seat. Not only was it not said - it was not DONE. He was not in someone else's space! So all the I-paid-for-the-space-so-it's-mine responses are non sequiturs (this means they don't follow the line of reason). The issue is that people are being degraded when they are publicly humiliated by the airline staffers choosing inappropriate and, sometimes unneeded, times to call out a person for his/her weight. A passenger has multiple instances of contact with airline employees before he is seated on the plane. Mr. Smith was shamed after he was already seated within guidelines and his fellow passenger on his return trip was rebuked when her shape wasn't a "safety" or "comfort" concern. The bottom line is that human beings were made to feel less than human - and this is never acceptable. Whether or not the airline's policy is justifiable Whether or not the passengers know about it Whether or not the passengers fit in the seat Whether your space has been invaded on 1 flight or 15 flights Whether you are (and many of you are definitely coming across this way) someone who has a fatphobia and/or simply prejudiced against the overweight Whether it is a paying customer on a plane or a random person on the street - It is not okay to *purposely* humiliate someone. Ever.
Anonymous1637
Explorer C
You guys seem to be awfully concerned about making sure everyone is as comfortable as possible while continuing to shrink leg room across the board so that everyone but the smaller folks are uncomfortable as hell when flying on any airline. I don't see how Kevin was infringing upon anyone's personal space enough to be kicked off of the plane when you leave the assholes that recline, loud kids and babies, and smelly and/or drunk people alone that can be way more of an issue than any overweight person. The many I've seen on flights are never bothered or ridiculed, so what point is there to do it to one potential safety risk and not them all. Toss one of them out of the door during a flight as a warning to everyone else to shape up and fly right or they will see what it's like to fall to their doom rather than behave like a civilized, responsible person. Since the overweight population in this country continues to grow, you guys should be careful with what kinds of people you degrade because of a policy that wasn't properly enforced. Or at least do your judgment test well before they get on the plane.
Anonymous4583
Explorer C
To all that think that the "fatties" are all people who can't take care of themselves and just simply eat too many potato chips or something... Sometimes it's not that simple. I live with kidney failure. Though I wouldn't say that my body type is going to get me thrown off a plane, I do live with the frustration that because of the fluid I retain (due to the lack of kidney function), I tend to have a rounder tummy than I'd like. I've had to come to terms with this. Should I be deemed a lazy person who doesn't exercise and take care of my body? Am I to be judged subhuman because I'm not a stick thin model? Because I have a chronic condition that won't be resolved until I get a kidney transplant in a few years? I'm so disappointed in some of the comments I've been reading here. 😧
Anonymous3262
Explorer C
I hope Kevin realizes he needs to lose weight. His latest blog postings appear to show he is still in denial. KEVIN: Try "Power 90" DVDs
Sandra_Smith
Explorer C
The actions take toward Kevin Smith by SouthWest Airline was appauling and disgusting. If the airline has this policy it should be handled before a person boards the plane and is seated. He did not fit the criteria to be removed from the plane since he was able to lower the arm rest and buckle his belt without an extension. This was intentional humilation on the part of the airline and they were successful. Mr. Smith was escorted off of the plane like criminal or a sub human that did not deserve any respect simply because of his weight. I was extremely appauled when I read an article on this incident and then listened to Mr. Smith's pod cast. For those ppl that applaud the airline would you have the same attitude if this had been an african american being removed because they were black? This is discrimination yet ppl are agreeing with it and agreeing with this disguting behavior by the airline employees, which makes me even more sick. Adults have become school children chanting fatty fatty, and four eyes at ppl who wear glasses. This type of behavior is not only disturbing but it is appauling that it is encouraged and accepted as appropriate society behavior. As far as I am concerned I will never fly this air line and I will encourage all of my family and friends to not use it as well. An apology can never undo what occured nor the humilation that followed Mr. Smith as he was removed from your plane. If airlines were as willing to profile a could be terrorist like they do over weight ppl then air planes would be safer forms of transportation. Your air line is so concerned about safety but yet "shoe bombers" and "under wear bombers" are seated without question because they are slender. Simply amazing that the priorties of the air lines are centered on over weight ppl rather than real issues of safety. Personally I would feel safer on a plane filled with overweight ppl because to date not one terrorist has been fat they have all been slender. Get your priorities straight before your only passengers are the pilot, co-pilot, and the crew.
Ansuz
Explorer C
I'd like to comment and maybe try to introduce some new (and not so new) ideas here, but the sad thing is that most people who have posted about hating flying next to the overweight (with their "eww, fatties!" sensibilities) will not read this, and SW will almost certainly not see this comment, but what the hell, why not? Mr. Smith has said that he did indeed fit in the seat, and was able to buckle the seatbelt. Where is the much hated spill-over here? He has said he was bounced for different reasons, but this so called apology still contends that he was removed for being overweight. Also, the information that Mr. Smith purchased a second seat for his previous flight (for personal comfort issues, not to fit with this outdated and frankly offensive policy), Kevin did not release this information, he didn't bring it up until SW had stated it. Does South West Airlines make a habit of releasing their passenger's purchase information to the public without their consent? And for everyone saying that seating overweight people is a safety risk in case of an emergency, do you think that SW should have a policy put in place to prevent children from boarding? They'll surely be a hindrance to safety efforts, running around in a panic, not responding to flight crew orders. Or people with limps? They won't be as fast, might slow people down. Maybe they should IQ test passengers before they get on, because if they're too stupid to follow the emergency plan, they could get everyone killed!
Anonymous270
Explorer C
Dear Linda, I realize you're probably trying your best, but this still isn't an apology. You admit that previous statements on this blog, such as the captain deciding to kick Keven Smith off the plane, were false. But you don't address the issue of Kevin Smith meeting your standards to have a seat on the plane, but still being arbitrarily denied one. You don't seem to have contacted his seatmates and are relying on hearsay evidence that has already proven to be false in other respects. And you won't admit it. And you won't address the inappropriate first post on this subject (Not so silent Bob). Why is that post still here? Why is Christy who seems to have written the post still employed by your organization and looking forward to tweeting again on Tuesday? You need better PR help and you need it NOW. The way this comes across now, you're running scared because Larry King wants to have Kevin Smith on his show. Do this: Apologize. Say Kevin Smith did meet the standards to have a seat. Say exactly what steps you are taking with your employees to prevent this from happening again. And we could all move on. But posting what you have above only ensures that this issue will continue.
Anonymous4259
Explorer C
I agree with most, I think it is very foul that you wait until the plane is full and single out the most overweight passenger on the plane. If the airlines know that there are customers who are over weight why don't you add 4-6 super sized chairs so that that can fell comfortable just like all of the other paying customers.
Keenan_Leary
Explorer C
I for one am for Kevin Smith. I am 240lbs, and I CANNOT sit in those seats. Considering the fact my groomslady was 90lbs and barely fit into a SINGLE SEAT, how is ANYONE supposed to sit in that sardine can comfortably. I constantly see kids kicking adjacent seats, crawling OVER to their daddy's seat in front, and subsequent attitudes of "this is my chair, and I am dropping it as low I want". Half the time they knock my cup over to the point if I hadn't caught it or now fly with my hand on cup at ALL times, they are going to spill everything. You can no longer use laptops because when the person in front kicks all the way back, you cant open the screen more then 30 degrees, let alone get UP to go to the bathroom because your stuck between the armrest and the inconsiderate jerk in front of you. I'm sorry, WHERE is the "Safety" and "Personal Space" concerns there?!? It's YOUR PR nightmare, own up to it, because fanning the flames by feigning ignorance is what causes worse problems. Fessing up shows you understand what you did and you'll try to correct it, otherwise, you really suck at your jobs.
Josh6
Explorer C
Wow, I'm too poor to fly any other airline, and still I refuse to fly SWA. In every attempt to make it right you still avoid taking responsibility. I suggest you forget about all the corporate apology lingo, and just own up to it. This was stupid, and in trying to fix YOUR problem, you're just making it worse. Have fun watching business decline. Way to alienate like 75% of the country. Good corporate decision!
Sandra_Smith
Explorer C
The actions take toward Kevin Smith by SouthWest Airline was appalling and disgusting. If the airline has this policy it should be handled before a person boards the plane and is seated. He did not fit the criteria to be removed from the plane since he was able to lower the arm rest and buckle his belt without an extension. This was intentional humiliation on the part of the airline and they were successful. Mr. Smith was escorted off of the plane like criminal or a sub human that did not deserve any respect simply because of his weight. I was extremely appalled when I read an article on this incident and then listened to Mr. Smith's pod cast. For those ppl that applaud the airline would you have the same attitude if this had been an african american being removed because they were black? This is discrimination yet ppl are agreeing with it and agreeing with this disgusting behavior by the airline employees, which makes me even more sick. Adults have become school children chanting fatty fatty, and four eyes at ppl who wear glasses. This type of behavior is not only disturbing but it is appalling that it is encouraged and accepted as appropriate society behavior. As far as I am concerned I will never fly this air line and I will encourage all of my family and friends to not use it as well. An apology can never undo what occurred nor the humiliation that followed Mr. Smith as he was removed from your plane. If airlines were as willing to profile a could be terrorist like they do over weight ppl then air planes would be safer forms of transportation. Your air line is so concerned about safety but yet "shoe bombers" and "under wear bombers" are seated without question because they are slender. Simply amazing that the priorities of the air lines are centered on over weight ppl rather than real issues of safety. Personally I would feel safer on a plane filled with overweight ppl because to date not one terrorist has been fat they have all been slender. Get your priorities straight before your only passengers are the pilot, co-pilot, and the crew.
Anonymous838
Explorer C
this is a terrible non-apology. You could at least pretend you are actually sorry. You should be actually apologizing. What you are saying in this post is that you are not sorry about throwing if off the plane, you are just wishing it was done more diplomatically. Thats no good. I wouldnt want to fly on your airline after seeing how this was handled.
Tiff
Explorer C
Shame on you, Southwest! I used to fly SW all the time and did everything I could to get my friends and family to use your airline. I've flown alone and with my child, and always appreciated the pre-boarding and non-assigned seats so that we could set ourselves up and allow other passengers to choose seats that weren't right on top of us. While I do appreciate your policy for customers of size, I'm appalled by the way you've carried this out. I do agree that if a customer is too big to fit comfortably in the seat, he or she should either have to buy a larger seat (perhaps each plane should have a certain number of oversized seats) or buy another fare. However, clearly your staff needs sensitivity training. You seem to forget that although you are an airline, you are also part of the *customer service* industry. How dare you treat paying customers like this? Would it really hurt you to eat a piece of humble pie and admit that you were wrong? Kevin Smith, a "man of size" passed your size tests. The latest apology was a nice start, Linda, but I would be furious if I, or a member of my family was treated in such a way. I am a very small female who thoroughly enjoys her personal space, but I agree with the former poster who said we need to get over ourselves long enough to take a flight. I don't mind sharing an armrest with a fellow passenger. Southwest, you've lost my business and my family's as well. I'll reconsider if you gain some empathy and learn to treat your customers with respect.
Matt14
Explorer C
I wish I could say that after this incident SWA has lost a customer but it's this type of dignity-bereft customer service that has made me always avoid flying SWA at all costs. SWA has always treated its customers like cattle, and it's simply not worth the effort to fly the airline. What's disappointing is that it sounds like you are telling Mr. Smith one thing and telling the world another. I may not like your policies but until this incident I didn't think you'd lie to your consumers. Perhaps I was wrong.
Matt14
Explorer C
I wish I could say that after this incident SWA has lost a customer but it's this type of dignity-bereft customer service that has made me always avoid flying SWA at all costs. SWA has always treated its customers like cattle, and it's simply not worth the effort to fly the airline. What's disappointing is that it sounds like you are telling Mr. Smith one thing and telling the world another. I may not like your policies but until this incident I didn't think you'd lie to your consumers. Perhaps I was wrong.
Carrie_Ensie
Explorer C
I find this all very disappointing as a customer that falls somewhere in between the too big and too small. The blog post yesterday in response to Kevin Smith's Twitter updates was unprofessional. Using the excuse that his tweets were full of obscenities is not an acceptable excuse. He was angry, hurt, inconvenienced, and embarrassed. Having received the sort of treatment from the staff of ANY company in a service industry that both he AND the young lady on his eventual flight home received, I'm not sure I wouldn't have reacted in the same manner. Today's blog post is not much better, it barely contains an apology and the tone is patronizing and condescending. As has been posted numerous times already, just because a policy has been around for 25 years doesn't make it right. More to the point, though, it seems as though the enforcement of this 'policy' is completely subjective. It is worded as having a measurable metric for pass/fail and yet that is not being consistently followed. This is a failure on the side of SWA and its employees, NOT the customers. As for all the 'skinnies'' speaking for ALL in that group (or in the non-People of Size group, if you prefer), I ask that you please speak for yourself. I'm more than capable of speaking for myself and don't need your bigotry reflecting negatively upon me. If you are so inconvenienced by the people you are seated near (solely for their size), rather than humiliate them so that YOU can be comfortable might I suggest that YOU purchase two seats? Then you won't have anything to worry about when you travel (other than the effect your hate-mongering has on those subjected to your presence). I agree with other posters that I've been inconvenienced more frequently by sick children, ill-behaving children with inattentive parents who seem to think it acceptable for their child to kick the back of the seat in front of them repeatedly, heavily perfumed women, the hygienically challenged, the recliners who have tried to cut off the circulation in my legs (and at 5'7" it isn't like I'm statuesque), and other discourteous passengers than I have by someone being too large for their seat. I've never been a fan of SWA to begin with since I'm not a fan of being treated like cattle regardless of how little I paid for my flight's ticket. The contradictions I've seen here in response to this particular issue (and how it contrasts to your 'LUV' program~which now seems to pertain to only a select portion of your client base) have cemented my opinion of your airline. Customers are customers and ALL should be treated with dignity and respect. It does not appear to me that this is a policy that SWA values. That being the case, I won't be choosing to fly your airline in the future and will discourage any friends from making the mistake of flying with a company who shows such poor consideration for their customers. For those of you who cheer that those of us that are choosing not to continue to support such inequity of treatment towards customers by taking our money elsewhere leaves more room for you, I seriously hope that you (or one of your loved ones) never find yourself in a situation where you fall into a category that is belittled and mocked by others, it is not a good feeling, BUT maybe it would teach you the importance of the Golden Rule. We are all in this together and a little kindness and empathy go a long way. SWA, Linda, et al, I kindly request that you take this opportunity for some serious introspection and use it as a chance to improve your system rather than to blindly support it at the expense of your customers.
Anonymous3762
Explorer B
Tell the truth already. Don't keep trying to imply that it wasn't really you guys' fault; that is in no way, shape or form an apology. You're outright lying in saying he was a problem. The only problem was your employee. Discipline her, eat the mistake, and learn from the whole ordeal. Stop blaming your customers.
Anonymous2680
Explorer C
Rick, I don't know whether you're being serious or not, but I am an obese person (weigh 330 pounds) and I can easily run a mile in under 15 minutes. And for the record, I can fit just fine in airline seats.
Tracie
Explorer C
I have sat next to my share of overweight airline passengers and I'll admit..each time, I thought to myself "not again!" but not once did I think that they should be kicked off the plane. That being said....Kevin Smith does not spill into surrounding seats. Geez people...I realize that this a "privately" owned company but it services the PUBLIC. All of the public. If a customer is large enough that they cannot fit comfortably into one seat, at this point in their lives..I'm sure this is not a news flash to them. But in a customer service environment..what could they possibly gain by seating him only to remove him and humiliate? Then even after this happened...they do not learn from their bad decisions..they turn around and do the same thing to a woman of size next. Seriously?
Anonymous4138
Explorer C
I find it interesting that discrimination based on size is the last accepted form of discrimination. Those of you taking up your crosses against the "fatties" so that you can have your precious elbow room are horrible people. Did you ever stop to think that being fat is not a choice for everyone? Would you tell a handicapped person in a wheelchair that they have to pay more in order to fly? You all should be disgusted by yourselves.
Anonymous3233
Explorer C
Wow, what a weak and insincere "apology". I would have respect for SWA if it would simply take responsibility for the appalling way this situation was (mis)handled. I'll defnitely not be flying SWA again.
Anonymous1359
Explorer C
I find it interesting that discrimination based on size is the last accepted form of discrimination. Those of you taking up your crosses against the "fatties" so that you can have your precious elbow room are horrible people. Did you ever stop to think that being fat is not a choice for everyone? Would you tell a handicapped person in a wheelchair that they have to pay more in order to fly? While we're at it, let's charge everyone who isn't white an extra $100 to fly. They should be happy to pay in order to fly the magical skies with you upstanding folk. You all should be disgusted by yourselves.
Anonymous3233
Explorer C
Wow, what a weak and insincere "apology". I would have respect for SWA if it would simply take responsibility for the appalling way in which this situation was (mis)handled. I'll defnitely not be flying SWA again.
Anonymous2278
Explorer C
If you are stating he was removed because it was an over-full standby flight, why keep mentioning your 2 seat policy for large people? Because he was already seated and buckled in to one seat, why keep mentioning it? This is a half assed apology, and you are still blaming him for being fat. In reality, your airline screwed up by overfilling a standby flight and then humiliating someone. Now you are trying to continue to humilate the same person more in your "apologies" because of his size, to avoid just admitting a mistake you made and being done with it. I will never fly with your airline.
Carrie_Ensie
Explorer C
I find this all very disappointing as a customer that falls somewhere in between the too big and too small. The blog post yesterday in response to Kevin Smith's Twitter updates was unprofessional. Using the excuse that his tweets were full of obscenities is not an acceptable excuse. He was angry, hurt, inconvenienced, and embarrassed. Having received the sort of treatment from the staff of ANY company in a service industry that both he AND the young lady on his eventual flight home received, I'm not sure I wouldn't have reacted in the same manner. Today's blog post is not much better, it barely contains an apology and the tone is patronizing and condescending. As has been posted numerous times already, just because a policy has been around for 25 years doesn't make it right. More to the point, though, it seems as though the enforcement of this 'policy' is completely subjective. It is worded as having a measurable metric for pass/fail and yet that is not being consistently followed. This is a failure on the side of SWA and its employees, NOT the customers. As for all the 'skinnies'' speaking for ALL in that group (or in the non-People of Size group, if you prefer), I ask that you please speak for yourself. I'm more than capable of speaking for myself and don't need your bigotry reflecting negatively upon me. If you are so inconvenienced by the people you are seated near (solely for their size), rather than humiliate them so that YOU can be comfortable might I suggest that YOU purchase two seats? Then you won't have anything to worry about when you travel (other than the effect your hate-mongering has on those subjected to your presence). I agree with other posters that I've been inconvenienced more frequently by sick children, ill-behaving children with inattentive parents who seem to think it acceptable for their child to kick the back of the seat in front of them repeatedly, heavily perfumed women, the hygienically challenged, the recliners who have tried to cut off the circulation in my legs (and at 5'7" it isn't like I'm statuesque), and other discourteous passengers than I have by someone being too large for their seat. I've never been a fan of SWA to begin with since I'm not a fan of being treated like cattle regardless of how little I paid for my flight's ticket. The contradictions I've seen here in response to this particular issue (and how it contrasts to your 'LUV' program~which now seems to pertain to only a select portion of your client base) have cemented my opinion of your airline. Customers are customers and ALL should be treated with dignity and respect. It does not appear to me that this is a policy that SWA values. That being the case, I won't be choosing to fly your airline in the future and will discourage any friends from making the mistake of flying with a company who shows such poor consideration for their customers. For those of you who cheer that those of us that are choosing not to continue to support such inequity of treatment towards customers by taking our money elsewhere leaves more room for you, I seriously hope that you (or one of your loved ones) never find yourself in a situation where you fall into a category that is belittled and mocked by others, it is not a good feeling, BUT maybe it would teach you the importance of the Golden Rule. We are all in this together and a little kindness and empathy go a long way. SWA, Linda, et al, I kindly request that you take this opportunity for some serious introspection and use it as a chance to improve your system rather than to blindly support it at the expense of your customers.
Anonymous1387
Explorer C
Wow, what a weak and insincere "apology". I would have respect for SWA if it would simply take responsibility for the appalling way this situation was (mis)handled. I'll defnitely not be flying SWA again.
Anonymous1387
Explorer C
Wow, what a weak and insincere "apology". I would have respect for SWA if it would simply take responsibility for the appalling way this situation was (mis)handled. I'll defnitely not be flying SWA again.
Yes
Explorer C
You're forgetting to mention that Mr. Smith actually did fit in the seat with his seatbelt and the arm rest down but still got booted off. Where's the apology for that mistake?
Occasional_Flye
Explorer C
I'm glad a sincere representative from Southwest contacted Mr Smith and apologized. What happened to him was embarassing and unnecessary. I've flown your airline many times and mostly I've met hardworking people trying their best to make customers as comfortable as it is possible to be while wedged in like cattle headed for a feedlot. One thing getting lost in the discussion is the economics of seat sizing. So many people are blaming the victim here. Even though almost everyone I know detests flying because it's so degrading and dehumanizing. According to Southwest's website, their seats are 17". I just measured one of my dinner plates and it came it at 11 inches across at the widest point. It seems to me that Southwest's policy is basically that anyone who doesn't fit into a seat that's only slightly bigger than a PLATE is a special needs passenger and can be singled out for humiliation by random employees. What is wrong with this picture? Exactly what is normal? And when did we as a people agree that what was best for Southwest's bottom line (squeeze as many people as possible into the tin can!) was also good for us as customers? Airlines make their seats small to fit as many people as possible on their flights to maximize their profit. You cannot simultaneously care about customer comfort and safety while pursuing policies that cram people into tiny spaces they cannot move around in. But companies claim to every day and people don't seem able to grasp that they are being fed a load of crap. If safety was truly the main issue they would not allow unfit people of all kinds to fly - people who are ill, small kids, the weak and infirm, the mentally deficient, the elderly. But the issue isn't really safety, it's money. Southwest is not the worst. They just have good prices and they let people pick their own seats so people like them. Basically flying reduces our comfort and dignity to such abysmal levels that the smallest gesture makes people grateful and appreciative. All airlines sacrifice their customers safety and comfort for profits on a regular basis, and disguise it with claims about "keeping prices low" for their customers. It's kind of shocking to see how well this propaganda works on the average person. They aren't trying to keep prices low. They are trying to maximize profits. Their business model is to reduce service to the lowest level possible without losing you as a customer. They don't care about their employees any more than they care about their customers. They don't issue quarterly customer satisfaction reports. They issue quarterly earning statements. 17 inches is not a lot of space. The average person will fill that very easily. If you are in the middle seat it is even more cramped because of the personal dynamics. It's uncomfortable to sit that close to strangers for long periods. You cannot get up to go to the restroom without an embarrassing butt-in-face situation. I appreciate Southwest's pricing but would gladly pay $50 more for a few more inches of space but I don't have the option. Southwest is working hard to make you believe that anyone who doesn't fit comfortably into a 17" seat is a fat tub that doesn't deserve to fly. Airlines have reduced customer expectations to such a low level that people seem to have become willing participants in their own discomfort. Come on folks wise up to the corporate message manipulation that is going on here. You are being trained to think a certain way for their benefit, at your own expense. When was the last time you enjoyed the flying experience? I flew first class last year and it wasn't horrible. But most of the time it sucks and we all just tolerate it. Seeing people come to the defense of an industry (and a carrier) that treats their customers so shabbily (and has for years!) is sad and wrong.
brianb
Explorer C
You've proved yourselves to be a bunch of discriminatory, lying D-Bags....Congrats
Tracy_F_
Explorer C
The media hasn't mentioned anything about the other female passenger that was shamed by your wonderful staff on the same flight for her weight..he was more upset about the way she was treated than the way he was treated! I have flown with Southwest once and it was a crappy experience! The attendants were LITERALLY throwing packages of peanuts at the passengers and then disappearing for long periods of time. But the flight home was really the fun part. When we boarded the plane a group of obviously beligerant drunk women got onto the plane and sat behind us and continued to party. They kept ordering booze and kept getting served even though they were sloppy drunk when they boarded the plane in fact, one of the male attendants sat down and seemed to be partying with them most of the flight! A couple of them were behind us and kept kicking the backs of our seats to the point where my friend finally had to say something to them. At one point one of the drunks kept standing up and dancing in the aisle! An attendent meekly asked her to sit down a couple of times but it took a very disgusted man who was unfortunately seated in the middle of them to yell "sit your ass down!" to get something done about it. That's ok but people are shamed and made to leave the plane if they are overweight?! I for one will NEVER fly Southwest again after my bad experience but after this that is set in stone.
Anonymous1929
Explorer C
I've flown over 150,000 air miles in the last two years, many of them on Southwest. I have never observed a SWA flight crew behave badly, and they have always been the most professional. SWA is and remains my favorite.
ItsJimD
Explorer C
Before you post to the blog praising the decisions that were made or how they were carried out you should listen to Mr. Smith's side of the event at Smodcast.com Ep. #106. Like him or hate him (or never heard of him) it makes for an interesting perspective.