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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
Anonymous2577
Explorer C
Hey, maybe Mr. Smith could lose weight, skip a meal or two....then donate that food to feed a hungry country!
Anonymous3732
Explorer C
I do agree with the customer of size policy. However, it needs to be clarified and fair for all sizes of people. The thought that one must fit in the seat with the armrest down, is not a fair way to decide whether a customer must purchase a second seat. What about the customer thatooverflow from the armrest up. I have been on flights where the passenger next to me is of bigger brauder size and forces me to lean out into the isle. I feel as though, we are not being consistant accomodated for every passenger comforable top to bottom. If a person can't fit comfortably without invading another person purchased seat, they should be required to purchase a second seat as well. I am sure the times that is refunded to customers after the flight is not full is 9 out 10 times. Maybe a sizing sit, is the way to go.
Tony_Blaha
Explorer C
A quote from Mr. Smith's latest blog entry on the issue: "Linda told me that, before I got anywhere near the plane (remember: I was hoping to get on standby), they were having a space issue on board with another passenger who’d purchased two seats, and they were having a problem moving already-seated passengers to accommodate this person. Enter me, who - Linda admitted - WAS NOT A PROBLEM. She fully acknowledged that I wasn’t bounced by the Pilot… BECAUSE THE PILOT PROBABLY DIDN’T EVEN SEE ME. "According to Linda, with the melee surrounding boarding and finding a second seat for the other passenger, the Pilot called for a quick settlement of any outstanding issues so that they might take off. And even though I was already planted in my arm-rest lowerable, seat-belt-buckleable seat, I got the hook. "So the Pilot DIDN’T bounce me because I couldn’t fit in the seat. In fact, it sounds like the Pilot had very little to do with bouncing me at all. And Linda said she just found this out today, as they gather info from all involved." ... So Linda, was Mr. Smith too fat for the seat, or was this due to an issue completely unrelated to him? Either he's a liar, or you're obfuscating the truth of the matter. So which is it? Own up to your statements. Is Kevin lying, or are you?
Victoria_Leight
Explorer C
As the owner of a business based in the Midwest, my company uses SW almost exclusively for travel. Great fares, wonderful frequent flier program and no penalties for changes. A win/win for my company and for my employees who can keep their miles as a reward for the inconvenience, and often misery of, travel. I had my accounting department run some quick numbers on our SW utilization for the last 2 years: our Chicago business was 1.2 million, and our Houston/Dallas (independent cost center) business came in at 150 thousand. That’s a heck of a lot of tickets, and a heck of a lot of travel for my employees. Employees of all sizes. My business model focuses on the customer, supported by our company integrity and employee ownership. Apparently, yours does not. For a business to intentionally publically embarrass a customer (or any person, IMO) is unconscionable Airline travel has become dehumanizing enough for everyone and no one needs to be subjected to, nor feel there is even a remote possibility that a similar situation may happen to them because of their size, or what they’re wearing or (fill in the blank). I really don’t care how you try to spin this – the reality is a nonthreatening seated (and now vocal) passenger was removed from your plane because of his size - something Mr. Smith clearly states and something you allude to by your reiteration of your ‘2 seat policy.’ Here is how I’m looking at this – I will not knowing put my employees in any situation that will subject them to this kind of treatment in the off chance that one or more of your employees does not know how to properly interpret or enforce its own corporate policy. It may cost me more in expenses going forward, but I’m taking my business, budgeted air travel expense for the two cost centers is $630 thousand this year, to Continental and United, both of whom have slightly larger seats in coach. In the scheme of Southwest’s revenue stream, I’m sure my business is a drop in the bucket. However, it’s my money, and I can choose to engage businesses that share a similar customer/company philosophy or not. I’m choosing to engage business where the rules are clear. Traveling by air will still be dehumanizing, but I’m sure public humiliation will be removed from the equation with other carriers.
Spare
Explorer C
I can only guess that most of the negative comments are from "people of size". They seem to forget that Southwest did NOT cause their obese condition! They could care less about the customer squeezed in next to them. Why should an average sized customer be made to feel uncomfortable? If you need two seats than BUY TWO SEATS or lose some weight!!! You are not a victim!!!
Relia
Explorer C
I'm a very thin person, and I have no intention of flying Southwest Airlines again because of your appalling policy. A fat person is not so fat that the "inconvenience" of them spilling over into my seat is more important than a person's dignity as a human being. Is it less comfortable for me when someone else is partly infringing on 'my' seating space? Yes, sure, absolutely. But I assure you it's even less comfortable for that person, who has to deal with a tiny seat (all airline coach seats are tiny, this is not really up for dispute) that squeezes them in, being just as overly close to me as I am to them, and the indignity of wondering what cruel thoughts people around them may be thinking -- or hearing the cruel things that people may say. You say your airline has a policy of "assisting" your customers who require two seats. Shame on you -- shame -- on -- you -- for that bit of twisted, ugly, false wording. Your airline has a policy of *getting rid of* customers who require two seats until they're convenient for you to transport. In most cases, customers have to pay twice as much for this extra space. Shame on you. How dare you play at compassion? Your policy is punitive, not compassionate. This is one thin ally who is going to go ahead and "assist" herself to another airline.
Spacially_Chall
Explorer C
While everyone is being so intolerant of chubbies, we should also consider not allowing those who are too tall, too short, too old, too young, those who snore, smell bad, smell like an ashtray, smile too much, talk too loud, talk too soft, don't talk, talk excessively, don't smile, smile too much, wear clothes that don't match, wear too much perfume/cologne, have bad breath, hit the seat behind/in front/beside, turns the overhead light on/off too much, turn the pages of their magaiznes too loudly, don't sit still, don't sit up, slouch in their seat, don't share the armrest......................................................................................................................... All you indignant, intolerant, prejudiced fatty/chubby/fluffy/obese/large/heavy/chunky-haters should take a good hard look at yourselves and see what someone sitting next to you on an plane might find offensive, annoying, disgusting and rude. Wow, just wow.
Ken10
Explorer C
Right on, SWA! Kevin doesn't deserve an apology, just like you didn't deserve his tirade. Now I can rest assured I don't have to fly next to him on my next trip in or out of Burbank.
Anonymous1056
Explorer C
Having flown more than a few times in which I have had to "share" my seat with someone who overlapped theirs I understand how uncomfortable this situaton is. I don't elect to have someone I don't even know rubbing up against me or taking part of the seat I paid for. If Mr. Smith doesn't like the way airline handled the situation, perhaps he could do us all a favor and buy two seats or even better, fly a different airline. His ranting about his weight and how he has been subjected to unfair treatment, has become boring at best.
Anonymous1056
Explorer C
Having flown more than a few times in which I have had to "share" my seat with someone who overlapped theirs I understand how uncomfortable this situaton is. I don't elect to have someone I don't even know rubbing up against me or taking part of the seat I paid for. If Mr. Smith doesn't like the way airline handled the situation, perhaps he could do us all a favor and buy two seats or even better, fly a different airline. His ranting about his weight and how he has been subjected to unfair treatment, has become boring at best.
drmlabs
Explorer C
Hi. Just wanted to let SW know you've lost me as a customer. This has nothing to do with the too fat/not too fat debate. It's your policy of allowing Employees to outright lie to paying customers to smooth things over. You really think this would never bite back at you?? The employee who lied to Mr Smith should be disciplined, but that is not happening because SW allows, perhaps even encourages, employees to lie. Shame on you.
Anonymous3605
Explorer C
Southwest has always been on the forefront of many of airline policies that passengers deal with when they fly. Why not make take the 'fat' out of the issue and make it simply about 'size' or 'weight'. Just like luggage, if it's over weight or too big you have to pay extra. It's not personal, it just costs the airline more fuel to transport or takes room away from other passenger's potential bags. In the future the flight attendants should not be the one's to enforce the super-sized issue. It should be done at check-in before everyone is confined in a crowded cabin waiting for the door to close. That just puts everyone in an uncomfortable situation. Have a simple measuring gate for height or width and be done with it.
Anonymous3501
Explorer C
Why are the (few) Kevin supporters so hung up that "the armrests went down"? The bottom line is that their policy states you can't be intruding on the seats next to you. Believe me, there are people who will shove those armrests down, but they are clearly not contained in their own seat. Accounts from other passengers said that his 2 seatmates were both leaning away from him. Of COURSE they are not going to say anything right then! Who wants to be *that* person on the flight! That is why the policy doesn't give 2 s&its what the other passengers think, and shouldn't. Wakeup call: NOT everyone gets flagged for needing 2 airlines seats! If this has happened to you, or you are worried about this happening to you...you are in denial if you are blaming everyone else.
Anonymous1630
Explorer C
There is a reason SWA is #1. They have the best overall product, pricing, schedule and People. It didn't use to be that way, except the people part. It was through VERY hard work by many outstanding people over a long period of time both on the front line and behind the scenes that SWA earned this title. Mr. Smith knew of the policies used by SWA, he has bought an additional seat in the past. For him to exploit this event should so something about him ! SWA made an attempt to help him get on an earlier flight however the situation did not lend itself to fit his needs. His size should have been addressed way before boarding the aircraft. There is a problem with the consistency of this policy. In theory and reason, it makes complete sense. I believe it has already been decided in the courts that this policy is just. Perhaps instead of apologizing every time this comes up, the policy should be done away with and those that are negatively effected by sitting next to a large person should be compensated. It does not make any sense to have SWA apologizing for it's own policies it only adds distain and hurts credibility of the product.
MDM
Explorer C
TO LARGE PASSENGERS: YOU have options. Fly other airlines in 1st Class with wider seats. This is America and the land of opportuity. Let some overwieight, oversize (not fat) person start an airline and install very wide seats. They surely can make a profit instead of demanding accomadations from others. I know small car makers will sell to them but they instead choose to buy a larger vehicle for self comfort. Come on .... if you like cramped so much buy the little cars and stop discriminating against little car makers. You just want cake, pie and accomadation rather than you accomadating. The USA is out of whack now as it is because of the rule of the minority. Free flights for life because of one incident? GET REAL!! Appreciation of your plite because of your size problem does not mean everyone else has to forfiet their comfort for you. I'll just bet you pick and choose your own actvities to participate in based on your size also? No one forces YOU to participate. It;s called CHOICE and others; even companies; have them... JUST LIKE YOU. You don't like some of them.... GUESS WHAT? WE DON'T LIKE ALL OF YOURS EITHER! You Go Southwest!
Victoria_Leight
Explorer C
As the owner of a business based in the Midwest, my company uses SW almost exclusively for travel. Great fares, wonderful frequent flier program and no penalties for changes. A win/win for my company and for my employees who can keep their miles as a reward for the inconvenience, and often misery of, travel. I had my accounting department run some quick numbers on our SW utilization for the last 2 years: our Chicago business was 1.2 million, and our Houston/Dallas (independent cost center) business came in at 150 thousand. That’s a heck of a lot of tickets, and a heck of a lot of travel for my employees. Employees of all sizes. My business model focuses on the customer, supported by our company integrity and employee ownership. Apparently, yours does not. For a business to intentionally publically embarrass a customer (or any person, IMO) is unconscionable Airline travel has become dehumanizing enough for everyone and no one needs to be subjected to, nor feel there is even a remote possibility that a similar situation may happen to them because of their size, or what they’re wearing or (fill in the blank). I really don’t care how you try to spin this – the reality is a nonthreatening seated (and now vocal) passenger was removed from your plane because of his size - something Mr. Smith clearly states and something you allude to by your reiteration of your ‘2 seat policy.’ Here is how I’m looking at this – I will not knowing put my employees in any situation that will subject them to this kind of treatment in the off chance that one or more of your employees does not know how to properly interpret or enforce its own corporate policy. It may cost me more in expenses going forward, but I’m taking my business, budgeted air travel expense for the two cost centers is $630 thousand this year, to Continental and United, both of whom have slightly larger seats in coach. In the scheme of Southwest’s revenue stream, I’m sure my business is a drop in the bucket. However, it’s my money, and I can choose to engage businesses that share a similar customer/company philosophy or not. I’m choosing to engage business where the rules are clear. Traveling by air will still be dehumanizing, but I’m sure public humiliation will be removed from the equation with other carriers.
Rusty3
Explorer C
Not only is Kevin Smith is foul-mouthed, offensive individual, but he's also censoring everything posted on his blog. I have tried posting on there and if your opinion doesn't agree with his, he erases you comments. He even went so far as to block my IP address so I can't post on there anymore. Nothing I wrote was abusive or offensive in any way. He just deleted the comments because they didn't agree with his
Mike_Smith
Explorer C
Why not have a hula-hoop-like thing to determine who's "too fat" and who isn't? If a passenger can fit through the hoop, they get aboard with no restrictions. If not, they have to buy two seats. The diameter of the hoop could be the same as the seat width, or maybe a hair less to provide folks on the size border with comfort once they get in their seat. BTW, my name is Smith but I am no relation to Mr. Smith. If I were, I'd ask him for a part in his next film. Mike Smith
Anonymous2912
Explorer C
People with more efficient metabolisms are fatter, because they're capable of extracting more energy out of everything they ingest. People with less efficient metabolisms are thinner, because they waste more energy than people with more efficient metabolisms. That annoying thing girl in college who could "eat anything I want without gaining a pound tee hee"? Extremely inefficient metabolism. Two people with the exact same lifestyles and exact same eating habits can result in one thin person and one fat person based on this alone. Or heck, one person with the crappiest eating and laziest exercise habits (if they even have them to begin with) could end up thin and another person who works their butt off and goes on a healthy diet could still be fat. You shouldn't have to send your body into starvation mode just to lose weight, not that this works in the long run anyways since it's been shown starvation diets don't work and may make you fatter.
Anonymous1303
Explorer C
Thank you for enforcing your policy re: oversized passengers. I am one normal-sized passenger who is sick of being infringed upon by those who take up more than their fair share of seating space. And I am outraged at the abuse of "celebrity status" by this bully. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I remain a loyal fan and customer of Southwest.
Anonymous4583
Explorer C
Heck, y'all. I'm 4'10" and while leg room's not a problem for me, the seats are STILL pretty cramped for me.
Anonymous1811
Explorer C
Southwest is still playing games and bending the truth. This is a half-apology, half-insult statement and continues to waste any goodwill that might have been gained by reaching out to Mr. Smith. You should feel ashamed with yourselves. Debating the decisions of your employees is exactly what you should be doing. Correct that... there is no debate. They were wrong and offensive. The only thing to do is to discuss how and why they were ignorant. Bad apology and bad company. Go sit and spin.
Anonymous866
Explorer C
That is a terrible apology. How did you get this job? How about some tact next time? Once you learn it, pass it down to the rest of the company.
mckoder
Explorer C
I am not fat, but I feel for the fat guys. They shouldn't have to buy two tickets. But passengers sitting next to them shouldn't have to suffer either. What the airlines needs to do is to have a few extra-wide seats for the fat people. We Americans are compassionate people. We take care of our brethren that are less fortunate than ourselves.
Anonymous1708
Explorer C
Sit beside another passenger the size of Mr. Smith then make your comments in regards to SWA "ridiculous" policy. Better yet, sit your child beside him... have an emergency evacuation... Mr. Smith passes out and can't move... see if your precious little one can get around him in the isle... The policy is not just about comfort- it is a safety issue as well. I am a normal size person and have sat beside large people. Maybe the arm rest can go down and seat belt around their waist... doesn't mean their fat is not rolling over and touching my torso and legs... IT HAPPENS! I don't want to sit on a 6 hour flight with someone's fat touching me! No thank you! Boycott SWA? HA! I am boycotting Mr. Smith's movies and TV shows... potty mouth!
Anonymous3693
Explorer C
Please quit apologizing for enforcing your own policy.
Santa_Claus
Explorer C
Wow. Many of these comments are a great example of the ignorance that runs rampant in this country. Kevin Smith fit fine in his seat. This is about some flight attendant on a power trip who abused SWA’s policy as a sword and shield. But I don’t expect this will get through to any of you who wear your hatred so proudly on your sleeve.
Anne5
Explorer C
Does no one understand though that Mr. Smith WAS NOT breaking the policy. Fine, they have a policy that if you can't do up your seatbelt and put down the arm rests you need a second seat, but HE COULD DO THOSE THINGS. He was NOT too fat for the seat, or for THEIR policy. It doesn't matter what you think of overweight people, the point is he didn't break their policy and they shouldn't have used that as the reason for forcing him off the plane. And later, when he had purchased TWO seats, tried to force the poor girl next to him off for being too fat, when they KNEW there was an empty seat next to her.A paid for one, is absolutely disgusting, I for one am glad I will never even have the choice to fly SWA nor would I ever want to. Disgusting behaviour.
Anonymous3596
Explorer C
I applaud Victoria's post and principals. Take note other business owners.
pingwifi
Explorer C
Ah Nuts! I think Southwest Airlines celebrated Fat Tuesday just a little early on behalf of the phat Mr. Kevin Smith ... so, I have commemorated this event with a Phat Top 10 List for all of us who have shared our air space with those who are less than free to move around the cabin. Here is my ode to living large on Southwest: http://pingwi-fi.com/2010/02/phat-tuesday-on-southwest-should-have-been-wi-fi/ @pingwifi
Huskerbobe
Explorer C
I have had to sit on two occasions in the middle seat between two large passengers. One even needed an extender for her seatbelt. After they both over lapped on my seat I had about 1/2 of MY seat for me to use. They were very cramped and uncomfortable rides. "I" was the victum on these occastions, but until know have held my tongue. I applaud Southwest Airlines in there concern for us the passengers that these LARGE passengers infringe upon. Simply stated if they are too big to fit in a seat without taking part of the seats from the passengers next to them, they need to purchase two seats. Southwest's policy that they only have to pay for the second seat on FULL flights, is much more that fair to them. Southwest Airlines always puts the passengers first, the Kevin Smith's size people need to have a little concern for US and not just themselves. After all, they are responsible for the way they are, not ME! They need to take responsibility for their size and not try to blame everything that comes their was on someone else.
Lydia
Explorer C
I am embarrassed to have unknowingly supported an airline that would enforce a policy like this against a man who is clearly overweight, but is not so large that he is crowding other seats. I can understand having a policy that applies to the very obese, but Southwest seems to be applying this policy to anyone who isn't thin. In reading the official policy, I thought this was an extra-weight-costs-extra-fuel issue, not a fat-people-makes-passengers-nervous issue. I fly often, and I've sat next to people Smith's size. It has never been a problem. My company uses Southwest because the fares are inexpensive, and we are a not-for-profit, but part of our mission statement involves recognizing and encouraging diversity, so we will likely be finding a way to fly without using Southwest. I wonder how many people will be making the same choice?
Anonymous1670
Explorer C
You know how sometimes you run across a fat guy you shouldn't have messed with. Well Kevin Smith is that fat guy.
Huskerbobe
Explorer C
I have had to sit on two occasions in the middle seat between two large passengers. One even needed an extender for her seatbelt. After they both over lapped on my seat I had about 1/2 of MY seat for me to use. They were very cramped and uncomfortable rides. "I" was the victum on these occastions, but until know have held my tongue. I applaud Southwest Airlines in there concern for us the passengers that these LARGE passengers infringe upon. Simply stated if they are too big to fit in a seat without taking part of the seats from the passengers next to them, they need to purchase two seats. Southwest's policy that they only have to pay for the second seat on FULL flights, is much more that fair to them. Southwest Airlines always puts the passengers first, the Kevin Smith's size people need to have a little concern for US and not just themselves. After all, they are responsible for the way they are, not ME! They need to take responsibility for their size and not try to blame everything that comes their was on someone else.
Anonymous3264
Explorer C
I would much rather sit next to a large person, than have a person trying to contain a baby or child who may be restless, and may slobber, urp, poop, scream for hours or whatever? Fascinating that SW and other airlines allow parents to hold children on their laps during flights; this is cleary a safety issue! Then there are the prima donna late arrivers with oversize luggage who are accommodated, to others' discomfort. Why not address all safety concerns?
Anonymous2811
Explorer C
You folks that think the armrest criteria is the ONLY factor when being seated on a SWA aircraft are ignorant of the actual policy. Go to the SWA website and actually READ the policy. Not only does a person need to be able to deploy the armrest, they also must not encroach past it into any passengers space adjacent to them. Trust me, you folks that have a problem with this (read: are obese) are not going to like where this goes. Ultimately, you will force airlines to set criteria, weigh you and measure you and charge you accordingly; perhaps by the pound/dimension. Better yet, PLEASE proceed with your boycott. I encourage you to do so. Why? Because it means that first, you obese folks will be flying other airlines. That's great news because it allows those of us who don't wish to be crowded in the seats we paid for due to your condition. Second, PLEASE take a look at the fares from Burbank to Oakland for SWA with a 21 day advance purchase. SWA is $69-$89 one way, is always on a Boeing 737, the flight is about 45-50 minutes and you don't get charged for two checked bags up to 50 lbs. Now, go try to book the flight on any other airline. The identical flight will cost you $125-$250, will take a LOT more time (American and Alaska airlines fly you to Portland, Oregon, first and their best time is 4.5 hours), you will pay for your bags and you just might get the luxury of flying on a much smaller commuter type aircraft. And so you know, the other airlines have similar policies, but they just don't have the balls to publish them on their website. That's a LOT of food money. Maybe even the entire cost of a gym membership or a trip to a nutritionist or doctor - each time you fly. Kevin had purchased two tickets on his selected flights. He asked the gate attendants to allow him to fly standby on an earlier flight (standby implies it is a full aircraft and the gate attendants cannot guarantee available seating until almost immediately prior to gate departure as they have to compl;ete a head count). Kevin made it onto the aircraft, but it was determined due to his mass and girth, that it might be uncomfortable for adjacent passengers - or possibly a safety issue. The conclusion was to deplane him and allow him to fly on his original flight - or any other flight where more seating might be available. And while you're on the SWA website getting educated about the actual policy - you'll note that if you do purchase two seats and there ends up being enough vacant seats that you wouldn't have been required to purchase one, you receive a refund for the second seat. None of the other airlines do that. So, the next time you want to fly on SWA - purchase the necessary second seat and hope the plane isn't that full. You will receive a refund coupon to present the flight attendant if there are extra seats on the plane. How much easier can that be? Simply acknowledge your condition, plan for it - and if it doesn't inconvenience anyone else on the aircraft, you get your money back! What obese folks are asking for here is the ability to inconvenience others who paid for their seat and that such an accomodation should be made without any consideration on their part, for others on the aircraft. Again, PLEASE boycott SWA. PAY twice as much or more on other airlines, stay longer in transit, enjoying lengthy layovers, your time on turboprops and all the other benefits you will reap due to your "stance". It will be worth it, now that all the "offended" people of size are flying on other airlines, to watch how quickly the respond with published policies like SWA's. AND how quickly passengers of normal size flock to SWA to avoid the cattle rush. which means quicker boarding and deplaning for SWA passengers, lower fuel costs - well, the benefit list just goes on and on. Perhaps Michelle Obama should 'weigh in' on this issue. But as it stands now, those who find this policy "offensive" and threaten to boycott are suffering from an indignation that not only did they foist upon themselves and hope to shoulder on others - but will ultimately benefit SWA and will result in more far reaching accountability for their own obesity due to airlines implementing much more uniform policies regarding obese passengers. Lastly, the DOT has ruled for SWA in every court case surrounding this issue. The law recognizes that when you purchase a ticket to fly on an aircraft - it is interpreted to mean one seat. If you don't want to run the risk of being asked to deplane - then take some responsibility and acknowledge how your obesity will affect other travelers and purchase a second seat. Problem solved. Why insist that the aircrew have to make decisions "on the fly" because you refuse to acknowledge reality and/or are a cheapskate trying to get more than you actually paid for.
Anonymous3264
Explorer C
I would much rather sit next to a large person, than have a person trying to contain a baby or child who may be restless, and may slobber, urp, poop, scream for hours or whatever? Fascinating that SW and other airlines allow parents to hold children on their laps during flights; this is clearly a safety issue! Then there are the prima donna late arrivers with oversize luggage who are accommodated, to others' discomfort. Why not address all safety concerns?
mc_love
Explorer C
Lets cut to the chase... This is a Southwest training issue. The Southwest crew and staff in question reacted to the key words "two seats". They interpreted this to mean that Kevin Smith was (in there own words) a person of size.. . Kevin Smith does not NEED two seats to fly he just booked two seats for privacy sake. Once the crew had pigeonholed Mr smith they felt empowered by the person of size policy to remove him from the plane. in there eyes problem solved. The crew probably felt no responsibility for the incident just like a Nuremberg Defense within the confines of corporate policy. Lets not muddy the waters by the fact that Kevin Smith is a celebrity, his celebrity status only makes the issue news worthy and that's how I found out about it. I'd feel the same way if it was John or Jane Doe (I just probably wouldn't have heard about it). Personally I don't feel comfortable relying on vague interpretations of policy.
Jen6
Explorer C
Count me as another frequent traveler who will never fly Southwest again. I also would like to know why extremely tall people whose legs do not fit are not also singled out. Many is a time that I have no room (and I am 6'1 and need all the legroom I can get) for my legs because a skinny person with long legs takes up half of my legroom. Why not pull them? If your 25 year old policy dealing with "persons of size" then tall people should fit in that as well. Because as it was stated above, the fat are the last group it is ok to humilate, as it is their "own fault." Bull. If the overcrowded flight was a issue, then Kevin Smith should have been told that. What I see is an idiotic employee who went for the easy route...humiliate him and he won't cause a ruckus. If it truly was a misunderstanding, Southwest should retract and admit their mistakes. Otherwise, I hope Kevin Smith launches a law suit only so that employees would have to testify under oath that his weight was not the real issue. This man is going to be judged because of it and it is just wrong. It is time to start voting with our wallets people. It may cost a few more bucks to fly someone else, but maybe once businesses know we are willing to do this, then they may actually attempt real customer service.
Jen6
Explorer C
Count me as another frequent traveler who will never fly Southwest again. I also would like to know why extremely tall people whose legs do not fit are not also singled out. Many is a time that I have no room (and I am 6'1 and need all the legroom I can get) for my legs because a skinny person with long legs takes up half of my legroom. Why not pull them? If your 25 year old policy dealing with "persons of size" then tall people should fit in that as well. Because as it was stated above, the fat are the last group it is ok to humilate, as it is their "own fault." Bull. If the overcrowded flight was a issue, then Kevin Smith should have been told that. What I see is an idiotic employee who went for the easy route...humiliate him and he won't cause a ruckus. If it truly was a misunderstanding, Southwest should retract and admit their mistakes. Otherwise, I hope Kevin Smith launches a law suit only so that employees would have to testify under oath that his weight was not the real issue. This man is going to be judged because of it and it is just wrong. It is time to start voting with our wallets people. It may cost a few more bucks to fly someone else, but maybe once businesses know we are willing to do this, then they may actually attempt real customer service.
Travis_W_
Explorer C
It was a long standing policy of bus lines that African-Americans had to be seated at the back, or stand if a White person wanted a seat. Just because the policy is 25 years old, doesn't make it right.
Anonymous3389
Explorer C
I am a long time happy customer of Southwest airlines. However, I am a person of size, barely fitting into the seat with the armrest down. I feel badly when the middle seat is filled that I might be encroaching on someone and do my best to keep the armrest free for them. I miss the old planes because you could put the inside window armrest up and gain almost 3 more inches of space, which made the seat perfect for me and the person next to me. Southwest could help this situation a lot if they would make the current armrests moveable on the window side--or even remove them. If they did this in 10 rows and let the heavy customers know about it, everyone could be more comfortable. They could even make the seat belts longer in those window seats. This wouldn't work for people that are truly too big to fit into one seat, but it would work for a very large portion of overweight customers who are borderline.
Anonymous3762
Explorer B
The only people requesting special treatment are the people who think they deserve to ride on *public transportation* without bumping into people. Seriously? We obviously need better public transit if you all are missing out on the experience of riding a bus regularly.
Bob_Simpson
Explorer C
I travel all over the world on many airlines . I cringe when a fat person comes along because their fat is going to spill under the armrest and into my torso. two seats should be the rule and the airline's only mistake was trying to board this guy into one seat.
Anonymous1409
Explorer C
Maybe the airlines should put a practice seat in the gate area and have customers try to sit in it before boarding? Just like the rides at the amusement parks, if you don't fit in the seat with the arm rests down without your body flowing under and over the armrest into the next seat, and the flight is full, you don't ride (unless you have purchased an extra seat for your excess). You know if you fit in the seat. Why do you put yourself in that situation? Buy an extra seat and if you don't need it on both segements SW will refund your money. That is certainly fair and would save you and the airlines a lot of grief and embarrassment. In this case,my understanding is that the passenger was a standby who should not have been cleared because he needed 2 seats and there was only one available. THIS IS THE ONLY THING SW DID WRONG! How would he have responded if they left him at the gate and cleared the next person on the standby list who only needed one seat? That would have been another issue. Unfortunately, to get the flight out on time a hard decision needed to be made. I doubt any SW employee "enjoys" embarrassing anyone. Beware of saying you won't fly SW again. Most of us don't have the option of paying what the other airlines charge for their airfare and extra fees. Two seats on SW are often cheaper then one seat on another airline, especially if you buy them at the last minute. You will be eating your words. No pun intended! The only problem with SW is that many of their flights are full. They do not have extra seats to give away. Other airlines seem to have open seats on their flights so this is not as "big" of an issue. SW also has quick turn times. They won't hold up 136 people for one persons "issue". They will remove the person from the plane and deal with the issue later. I for one appreciate their consideration of the majority of the passengers. Be honest. Do you want a customer of size sitting next to you? Be thankful the airline tries to handle that situation for your safety and comfort.
Jonn_Parker
Explorer C
I'm a svelte 140lbs and have no trouble sitting in a Southwest seat, roller coaster seat or compact car. I hate having my space infringed upon by another passenger who is of larger body proportions and thought the idea of buying an extra seat would make sense. However, as I hear about this story I wonder if it is the right way to handle it. In Canada there was a ruling that requires airlines to give a second seat to a larger passenger for free. In a typical movie theater there are always empty seats due to the occasional larger person. Singling people out due to appearance is offensive. Making some people pay more is a form of discrimination. Perhaps Southwest should just accept that giving up an occasional seat for free to a larger person is the cost of doing business, albeit one that might add $1-$5 to the cost of a ticket. I don't think changing the seat size is an option as they are perfect for 95% of the passengers. Perhaps bring Kevin, the girl he sat next to out of Oakland and a bunch of other 'persons of size' in as well as some medium sized people who like their space and brainstorm a new policy together. The best customer service can be given when something goes wrong, this is your chance to prove you can be better then the rest.
roadwarrior
Explorer C
I have to fly every week, usually Southwest. On a couple of occasions I have had to endure long flights leaning 35 degrees out into the aisle with my legs pulled to one side and my arms pulled in close while being bumped hard each time someone came down the aisle, all because a large person who 'fit between their armrests' in the lower part of the seat, albeit with a seatbelt extender, was next to me. The flight attendant must have read my mind when she asked if I was 'okay'. I would not think of embarrassing the person next to me by saying anything, out of politeness and compassion. Besides, on a full flight, nothing could be done about it. My back was killing me after the flight. The seats are not big enough. Linda is quite literally between a rock and a hard place on this one and I don't envy her position. On the other hand, she mentioned that Mr. Smith was a "reasonable guy" in their private conversation. This was in opposition to his profane and juvenile tirade when he held the microphone. It becomes obvious that, with a film about to be released, he has found a convenient platform for cheap publicity.He is in the media field and he understands the power of it. He should be flying first class on another carrier, since he can afford it. If he gets to sit in a plane seat on the Daily Show, make sure he is in the middle of three seats. I will volunteer to sit next to him and prove him wrong. As for those here who proclaim their boycott of Southwest, the rest of us say "Thank you"! Have some peanuts on the way out.
Cat11
Explorer C
CALIFORNIA PIZZA KITCHEN and the Hawaiian Pizza is the REAL problem!!! If he didnt eat the PIZZA and have pizza sauce all over the front of his shirt then maybe he wouldnt have been singled out and tossed.. PS ... would you give a BJ to the bank robber to save the lives of the hostages
Victoria_Morgan
Explorer C
Sorry, but as a passenger, I want access to my entire seat and I do not feel I should have to share any of it with someone who is a customer of size! Granted, letting the gentleman board and then be removed was obviously not in good taste, and for that I'm sorry he had that experience BUT keep the customer of size policy. I purchase an entire seat...and I want all of it for me!
Rene
Explorer C
I am sure it was embarrassing for Kevin - unfortunately, thanks to fast food and processed junk food, this is the reality of our day. Southwest should create a policy and stick to it, that way people who are overweight and imposing on others would know ahead of time and would not have to wonder if they can or cannot fit comfortably in a seat.