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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
Ann_Haywood
Explorer C
How would you feel if you had to sit next to a large person. Maybe the bottom half fit with the armrest down, but what about the top part of a person. The arm that is so big it is sitting on your chest, threating to choke you at any given moment. It's uncomfortable. Why do I need to be black and blue because you are intruding upon my space? Embarrassing, how embarrassing is it for someone to ask you to move your upper part because they can't breath. Get real people. Policies are in place to protect everyone involved. Stop whinnnnnnnning Kevin, own up the responsibility you have to the person that will be sitting next to you.
Anonymous2713
Explorer C
I think I have the answer to solve everybody's problem, look at the ADA, you have to comply with their regulations. Why not enlarge at least the two seats that are in the emergency exit row?
John_Will
Explorer C
As someone who has had to sit next to a person overflowing the seat and taking up half of your space, I think SW was correct in not allowing him to remain on the flight. It's easy to be in favor of leaving him on if you're the one that is crowding the next person out, not so easy when you're the person that is stuffed in next to a 400lb guy like a sardine! If you can't fit into a seat without overflowing into the space next to you, you should buy two seats or travel first class. I find it especially amusing that you can easily afford first class but choose to fly coach and then moan about the service.
Anonymous2092
Explorer C
Why not start putting larger seat in your planes? If this has been an issue for 25 years you would think that it would have been fixed by now.
Harry
Explorer C
Admit your mistake - you screwed up and are trying to pass the buck. He fit in the seat and passed your arm rest test. Shame on you Southwest shame on you! Get used to it Southwest - 3/4 of America is obese ... you will need to accomodate seating just in order to survive.
The_Voice_of_Re
Explorer C
You know, no one besides the people on that plane would ever have known about this if Kevin Smith hadn't taken to his Twitter account to whine about it. He's the one who made it a huge public issue, yet he talks about having his dignity--more like ego--bruised. It wouldn't be as embarrassing if millions of people didn't know about it, now would it? And he sure did send a lot of tweets trying to get Oprah's and Larry King's attention. Could it be, oh, I don't know, that he has a new movie out that could use some publicity? Apparently, Kevin Smith feels he's fat if Southwest Airlines won't say he's not. Sounds like a personal self-esteem issue to me. Get some counseling, Kevin.
James_Fields
Explorer C
Hey RW, You and your policy is as bad as the situation in Montgomery, Alabama in the 1950s. All you have to do is replace the words "persons of size" with jews, blacks, gays, or women, and it is obvious that this is discrimination. I hope someone sues your company over this policy and takes it to the Supreme court. I hope the ACLU gets involved. Your employees and company are no better than those who had "whites only" sections of the bus in the past.
This_Guy
Explorer C
You've lost another customer here. Get some PR skills.
Hermann
Explorer C
@ Elaine Good riddance. Glad I will no longer see you on SW. Enjoy US Air and others like it with their crappy customer service and expensive flights. I have been flying regularly for business for the past 15 years. I am sick of fat people. They are everywhere anymore. This is a big problem in our society that people cannot control themselves from the food they eat and refuse to exercise. Go to any major hotel and see the bar packed but the exercise room empty. How do I know, because I work out and then have my cocktails. Someone mentioned earlier we have to worry about obese kids...my god parents lose the video games and get your fat little sausage of a kid to play sports. This whole discussion is pathetic. Stop protecting people who can't control themselves...whether it's with food, finances, their marriage or whatever. And don't tell me that people being fat is primarily because of their DNA. If that was the case then why wasn't this a problem 25, 50 or 100 years ago? Because people in this country have become fat and lazy...and what's worse they refuse to accept the blind truth. If you think the obesity problem in this country is the result of DNA I suggest you travel abroad and you will be enlightened.
Hermann
Explorer C
@ Elaine Good riddance. Glad I will no longer see you on SW. Enjoy US Air and others like it with their crappy customer service and expensive flights. I have been flying regularly for business for the past 15 years. I am sick of fat people. They are everywhere anymore. This is a big problem in our society that people cannot control themselves from the food they eat and refuse to exercise. Go to any major hotel and see the bar packed but the exercise room empty. How do I know, because I work out and then have my cocktails. Someone mentioned earlier we have to worry about obese kids...my god parents lose the video games and get your fat little sausage of a kid to play sports. This whole discussion is pathetic. Stop protecting people who can't control themselves...whether it's with food, finances, their marriage or whatever. And don't tell me that people being fat is primarily because of their DNA. If that was the case then why wasn't this a problem 25, 50 or 100 years ago? Because people in this country have become fat and lazy...and what's worse they refuse to accept the blind truth. If you think the obesity problem in this country is the result of DNA I suggest you travel abroad and you will be enlightened.
Shoulders
Explorer C
It's amazing how people who aren't scrawny little gits are universally labeled "fat" and then derided by the same people who would be AGHAST at the idea of even noticing that a person is female, black, Muslim or whatever. People shoot me dirty looks because I have exceptionally broad shoulders and the narrow seats put my elbows into "their" territory. Hey, just like you, I paid for a reasonably comfortable flight. Should I be punished just because my shoulders are wider? Or, for the same price you're paying, am I supposed to keep my arms crossed uncomfortably for the entire flight while you sprawl around? I'm built wide. I'm NOT "fat", not in comparison to a lot of the people who are constantly snipping at people for being "overweight"; in fact, with a majority of those, I'd be willing to bet that my body-fat percentage is LOWER. Yet *I* get judged by them. What's next? You gonna start snipping at tall people? Handicapped people with canes or wheelchairs? Stop and THINK before applauding this kind of jackassery. Singling out one group that just happens to be different from you is, plainly, discrimination.
I_weigh_486_pou
Explorer C
Why can't airlines make their seats bigger? Why can't airlines offer more leg room on standard flights? Why are airplane bathrooms so small? Why are peanuts served on airplanes?
LNagel
Explorer C
so it is comendable that you have chosen to reach out to Mr Smith - I wonder what would be your response had Mr. Smith turned out to be just some regular schmoe and not a multi millionaire celebrity. That fact still remains that airplane seats are too dam small for the regular folks and have been that way for the last 40 years. What is going to take for you guys to get that the paying customer deserves a comfortable seat and not some 17 inch piece of 2 X 4 to park his butt on. Take out one seat per row and widen the rest of the row and the problem is solved. This whole thing has gotten completely ridiculous and I for one will not be riding yours or any other airlines planes until you guys finally get it.........
LNagel1
Explorer C
so it is comendable that you have chosen to reach out to Mr Smith - I wonder what would be your response had Mr. Smith turned out to be just some regular schmoe and not a multi millionaire celebrity. That fact still remains that airplane seats are too dam small for the regular folks and have been that way for the last 40 years. What is going to take for you guys to get that the paying customer deserves a comfortable seat and not some 17 inch piece of 2 X 4 to park his butt on. Take out one seat per row and widen the rest of the row and the problem is solved. This whole thing has gotten completely ridiculous and I for one will not be riding yours or any other airlines planes until you guys finally get it.........
Anonymous1620
Explorer C
Or somebody just needs to put you inconsiderate thin people for not understanding out of your misery.
LolaM
Explorer C
You really need to stop playing the safety card on this, there is no safety issue involved. Many other types of passengers present potential obstacles in case of emergency but they are not singled out for public humiliation nor required to pay extra fare. And do not be mistaken, the outcry you hear is about the very public displays your employees engage in to ostracize overweight people. This is not the first time SWA has made the news for its inconsistent application of its own policy, and it's unlikely to be the last. To say you've never dealt with this situation is disengenuous, you have had myriad complaints from people who have been humiliated in similar fashion. The only thing new about it is that your employees made the mistake of doing it to a celebrity who is linked in to the virtual world. The only way to truly rectify this situation is to send an unequivocal message to all of your employees that you do not condone the humilation of nor discrimination against overweight people. You will clarify your policy so that every.single.employee knows whether or not a second seat is required. You will allow NO passenger to get as far as his/her seat without being informed of the second seat policy. And in the case that all of the above fail, you will institute the same service recovery measures used in Mr. Smith's case. As if. We know that won't happen because, protestations to the contrary, SWA promotes discrimination against random fat people. Notice that most of your supporters are less than tactful about their hostility to those who are overweight. Although this attempt at an apology is certainly better than the first, it still needs more work. You need to not only acknowledge but fix the inability of your employees to adhere to your own policies. You need to make it crystal clear to everyone purchasing tickets exactly what that policy is. Until that happens, you can blog your little heart out but it won't make any difference.
LolaM
Explorer C
You really need to stop playing the safety card on this, there is no safety issue involved. Many other types of passengers present potential obstacles in case of emergency but they are not singled out for public humiliation nor required to pay extra fare. And do not be mistaken, the outcry you hear is about the very public displays your employees engage in to ostracize overweight people. This is not the first time SWA has made the news for its inconsistent application of its own policy, and it's unlikely to be the last. To say you've never dealt with this situation is disengenuous, you have had myriad complaints from people who have been humiliated in similar fashion. The only thing new about it is that your employees made the mistake of doing it to a celebrity who is linked in to the virtual world. The only way to truly rectify this situation is to send an unequivocal message to all of your employees that you do not condone the humilation of nor discrimination against overweight people. You will clarify your policy so that every.single.employee knows whether or not a second seat is required. You will allow NO passenger to get as far as his/her seat without being informed of the second seat policy. And in the case that all of the above fail, you will institute the same service recovery measures used in Mr. Smith's case. As if. We know that won't happen because, protestations to the contrary, SWA promotes discrimination against random fat people. Notice that most of your supporters are less than tactful about their hostility to those who are overweight. Although this attempt at an apology is certainly better than the first, it still needs more work. You need to not only acknowledge but fix the inability of your employees to adhere to your own policies. You need to make it crystal clear to everyone purchasing tickets exactly what that policy is. Until that happens, you can blog your little heart out but it won't make any difference.
GroundedMidget
Explorer C
I'm 5'8 and weigh 150lbs. I'm not a Kevin Smith fan, so I'm not here to defend him. I'd rather stick burning needles in my eyes than deal with the whole process of flying - the crabby counter agents, the TSA morons, and most of all the other passengers. Although I fly approximately never, if I had to fly again I would think very strongly against choosing SWA, simply because SWA seems to know they can smugly point to this policy and avoid a lot of backlash, as there will always be a contingent of "yeah, let's get em!" knuckle-draggers who gravitate towards anything that seems slightly punitive towards people they resent for whatever reason. Much of what I've seen lately indicates that most other airlines aren't much better.
Anonymous2597
Explorer C
He's just looking for publicity like all the jerks in Hollywood. Frankly, you have apologized enough and I hope he is not given any more special treatment. Your airline is tops in the whole field but you are never going to satisfy everyone. I have seen your staff patiently trying to please some very rude customers and I applaud you for your efforts. I wouldn't fly with anyone else because I "luv" Southwest!
Herman1
Explorer C
@ Elaine You're probably a vixen in bed...size 3 and always pregnant!! That's hot. I just hope you don't stuff your face with burgers, chocolate, etc when you're pregnant though. Yours Truly.....Herman
Anonymous2354
Explorer C
With half of the country overweight, shouldn't you actually notice 50% of your customers and accomodate them? I am of "normal" weight, a frequent flier on many airlines and can barely fit on the seats of the planes. As far as I am concerned, if I didn't absolutely have to, I would never fly again because of how uncomfortable it is. I could not imagine what 50% of the rest of the country feel like when they try to get on your plane and fit into a seat that doesn't have enough room. I, for one, will boycott Southwest. Go Kevin Smith!!!!
Reggie
Explorer C
As a 98-pound tiny blip of a person who far too comfortably sits into one of these tiny airline seats, I can say that I, for one, am disgusted by your failed attempt to fit into Kevin Smith's shoes. I have never been fat and am not sure I ever will be but public humiliation is wrong in any case. He was able to put his armrests down, able to buckle his seatbelt, and the people sitting next to him did not have a problem with it as it was only a 1 hour flight. What your employees and policies need to do is care for your customers of all ages, races, and sizes. He meant no harm and probably wouldn't cause any in the case of an emergency either. Everyone knows it's uncomfortable sometimes to sit next to a fat person, but is it really going to kill you? Take it in stride, people! So you can't use your armrest, so you get one less inch of space in an already crammed area...you're not going to be that way for life. Just stretch your legs once you're off the plane and be glad you didn't try to humiliate someone who has probably gone through a lifetime of humiliation as it is.
Anonymous1543
Explorer C
First of all, if you got this story from anywhere else than smodcast.com, you haven't heard the whole story. Mr. Smith is clearly justified in dragging the Southwest name through the mud if you consider both what happened to him AND the girl who he sat next to on his eventual flight home. Now Linda, it's clear that you are at least trying harder than the first attempt at "apologizing" but you still fail abysmally, because A: you have yet to answer his question, "who's responsible for this error?" He wants the name of that person and you should give it to him. And B: you "stand by your 25 year policy." Linda, there is only one way to make good on this. "Hi, we are Southwest airlines, and we f***ed up bad. It was due to the incompetence of our organization that this happened, and we appreciate Mr. Smith's assistance in pointing out some severe flaws in the way our employees relate to our paying customers. We will be in touch with Mr. Smith regarding the retraining/replacement of our employees." THEN, you find that girl on his last flight. You issue her a formal apology(private, she's suffered enough public embarrassment), you make sure that Mr. Smith knows about it, and then of course he'll tell the world via twitter and blogs. And you comp her A WHOLE BUNCH of free stuff. If it isn't clear to you by now that he's doing this campaign for her benefit and for all others that have been NEEDLESSLY insulted by your airline, NOT for himself, then you are an extremely stupid person. Even though he's tired of talking about it, he says on his blog that he'd rather pay for his tickets than have southwest comp all of them. Doesn't that say anything to you? If he'd accepted your apology, then he would have accepted the comps. The fact that he hasn't should be a clear indicator that your "apology", in his opinion, was lacking, and he planned to continue personally boycotting your product. And from the looks of the comments on this post, and on Twitter, enough people are going to do likewise that it could potentially hurt your business. You aren't even close to cleaning this up. You have to get Kevin Smith to publicly say that you guys have done right by him, or your screwed. Humility is the only way to do that. YOU HAVE TO FALL ON YOUR SWORD. Screw your badly enforced(and unclearly written) policy, screw your politically correct BS. Be human. Show decency. "We f***ed up, this should never have happened, we apologize deeply to Mr. Smith, we ALSO apologize personally to the young woman(name not mentioned) and have reached out to her to retain her as a faithful customer(i.e. comped her a bunch). We apologize to anyone else we've offended, and we are working on improving our operations so this doesn't happen NEEDLESSLY in the future." Fall-on-your-sword. That's the only thing you can do that has ANY HOPE of changing the minds of the many that have written you off over this. If you don't do this, you deserve what you get. I hope he goes on Larry King or some such. If he gets a platform greater than his smodcast/twitter fans, and he tells his WHOLE side of the story, then you guys are screwed. And I'm gonna laugh.
Anonymous1543
Explorer C
First of all, if you got this story from anywhere else than smodcast.com, you haven't heard the whole story. Mr. Smith is clearly justified in dragging the Southwest name through the mud if you consider both what happened to him AND the girl who he sat next to on his eventual flight home. Now Linda, it's clear that you are at least trying harder than the first attempt at "apologizing" but you still fail abysmally, because A: you have yet to answer his question, "who's responsible for this error?" He wants the name of that person and you should give it to him. And B: you "stand by your 25 year policy." Linda, there is only one way to make good on this. "Hi, we are Southwest airlines, and we f***ed up bad. It was due to the incompetence of our organization that this happened, and we appreciate Mr. Smith's assistance in pointing out some severe flaws in the way our employees relate to our paying customers. We will be in touch with Mr. Smith regarding the retraining/replacement of our employees." THEN, you find that girl on his last flight. You issue her a formal apology(private, she's suffered enough public embarrassment), you make sure that Mr. Smith knows about it, and then of course he'll tell the world via twitter and blogs. And you comp her A WHOLE BUNCH of free stuff. If it isn't clear to you by now that he's doing this campaign for her benefit and for all others that have been NEEDLESSLY insulted by your airline, NOT for himself, then you are an extremely stupid person. Even though he's tired of talking about it, he says on his blog that he'd rather pay for his tickets than have southwest comp all of them. Doesn't that say anything to you? If he'd accepted your apology, then he would have accepted the comps. The fact that he hasn't should be a clear indicator that your "apology", in his opinion, was lacking, and he planned to continue personally boycotting your product. And from the looks of the comments on this post, and on Twitter, enough people are going to do likewise that it could potentially hurt your business. You aren't even close to cleaning this up. You have to get Kevin Smith to publicly say that you guys have done right by him, or your screwed. Humility is the only way to do that. YOU HAVE TO FALL ON YOUR SWORD. Screw your badly enforced(and unclearly written) policy, screw your politically correct BS. Be human. Show decency. "We f***ed up, this should never have happened, we apologize deeply to Mr. Smith, we ALSO apologize personally to the young woman(name not mentioned) and have reached out to her to retain her as a faithful customer(i.e. comped her a bunch). We apologize to anyone else we've offended, and we are working on improving our operations so this doesn't happen NEEDLESSLY in the future." Fall-on-your-sword. That's the only thing you can do that has ANY HOPE of changing the minds of the many that have written you off over this. If you don't do this, you deserve what you get. I hope he goes on Larry King or some such. If he gets a platform greater than his smodcast/twitter fans, and he tells his WHOLE side of the story, then you guys are screwed. And I'm gonna laugh.
Anonymous4062
Explorer C
A last comment to Kevin Smith - just because you can put the armrests down doesn't mean you weren't significantly intruding (both below and above the armrest - I know; I've been there) into other passengers' space. The right way to look at this IMO - if the 3" armrest were replaced by an 18" solid partition (similar to some exit row seats - could you fit?
Anonymous4062
Explorer C
A last comment to Kevin Smith - just because you can put the armrests down doesn't mean you weren't significantly intruding (both below and above the armrest - I know; I've been there) into other passengers' space. The right way to look at this IMO - if the 3" armrest were replaced by an 18" solid partition (similar to some exit row seats - could you fit?
Anonymous3714
Explorer C
Linda, I think that Southwest employees made a judgment call. Whether it was good or bad is no longer relevant. It was done. It cannot be undone. It happens to countless people all the time. However, someone of Kevin Smith's stature and Southwest is publicly apologizing and talking about process and how things could have been handled better. Fact is, it was what it was. However, I feel that Southwest's pandering to a person who I believe stated (according to media reports) that Southwest was the welfare and food stamp airline is unacceptable. I am a working class man who flies your planes when I need to fly. I look for the best bargains. I do not make millions of dollars. I do not appreciate a wealthy person mocking my airline of choice. Am I a welfare and food stamp person? Would it be bad if I was? Is there some shame in that? Did he have to turn it into an attack on class and economic stratification? You apologized. Great. Now remember, it is not Kevin Smith that will keep you in business, but we middle class workers that will. Let's keep this in perspective. Worse things are happening in the world right now than a millionaire with a bruised ego because he was told that he needed to get off a flight. Perhaps if I tweet and complain loudly enough and show that the plane is not designed for tall people such as myself I can get my money back next time I fly. I need it more than a millionaire does!
Jake
Explorer C
Southwest = hates the fatties. What group is next?
John_from_L_A_
Explorer C
THANK YOU SOUTHWEST! I'm certainly not for being rude and/or deliberately embarrassing anyone, but being 'nice' to a large person means being 'not nice' to others who have to deal with the inconvenience of their "overage". Hang in there, take a little flack, but don't back down. It's a little like the restaurants that early on enforced total "no smoking" policies. The smokers swore they'd boycott, get their friends to boycott, etc. But in the end, the NON-smokers flocked to those restaurants. I think you'll get as many new customers as you will lose, because every one of us has been in that VERY uncomfortable position of having someone who doesn't fit hanging over into our space. Someone should ask Kevin Smith how he would like it if the next time he's in a theatre watching a movie if someone laid across his lap so THEY could be more comfortable.
Anonymous3762
Explorer B
http://salon.com/life/broadsheet/feature/2010/02/16/flying_while_fat/index.html
Anonymous68
Explorer C
First why all the negative coments are erase? Second you said this is a 25 years policy, I and my ex husband used to fly a lot from Los Angeles to Phoenix and back from 1986 to 1991 with Southwest (my ex being 6'7 in height and about 350lb) not once we were asked to buy an extra seat for him. There were times that the plane was completely full and nothing; this is something that started happening for a few years. Are we to say that people got fatter now and at that time everyone was skinny and my ex was the only overweight person in that flight that nobody notice? It is ridiculous the discrimination you are doing to over weight people. I stop flying with you guys one time that I had an issue with my luggage and when I went to complain the person I spoke to was very rude and when I said that I would never fly with South West his response was, "honey we lose you, we gain 10 more customers, good bye" and that is why I have not use Southwest and never will. I hope more people stop using you. I know my comment won't even be post or it will be deleted but I had to get it of my chest, southwest airlines discriminates
Anonymous584
Explorer C
the solution here is simple. remove all the arm rest from the seats. install vertical lexan sheets between the seats so everybody is assured they get their precious space. if you fit in this "box" you are good to go. problem solved.
Woodie_in_Balti
Explorer C
Nope! I won't be flying Southwest anymore. And this saddens me greatly! I have to repeat what a previous person wrote: Here's a problem with your whole story: If the captain didn't single Smith out for removal, how is it that Smith knew the captain's name? The flight attendant, who refused to give her OWN last name (according to Smith) was telling Smith a lie to back up the "quick judgment call" you mention? This makes no sense. How stupid do you think we are? He was already seated! And the people around him told the attendant that they were comfortable! Do you dispute this? I DO LOVE SOUTHWEST. This is why it saddens me to look elsewhere when we fly. And look elsewhere we will. It is fine that the head of PR issues an "apology," but where is the Captain in all this mess he created? Where is his apology? I can only guess that he is standing by this discriminatory decision. In his mind, his only mistake is that he selected a "famous" person to insult and embarrass. Were this I or any other person, we likely would have been dragged from the plane and told by management to lose weight. Thanks, Kevin! I am sorry you had to endure this insulting behavior by Southwest staff. BTW, JetBlue flies most everywhere Southwest does from BWI near DC.
Anonymous2896
Explorer C
Some of you people need to get the story straight.... 1. KEVIN SMITH DID FIT IN THE SEAT. The armrests went down. The seatbelt fit. The two ladies sitting next to him both were content. 2. KEVIN DOES NOT BUY 2 TICKETS BECAUSE OF HIS WEIGHT. He normally buys two tickets for himself because he just doesn't want to be close to other people and he can afford that luxury. I'd be the same way. You don't have to be overweight to intrude onto someone else's seating, and being famous, I'm sure he would like to avoid conversations such as "I got a great movie idea for you..." or worse, that awesome fan who has to act out a movie word for word that he already wrote and directed. In other words, ironically, he buys two tickets so other passengers don't get into his seating area, not the other way around. 3. KEVIN'S COMPLAINTS ARE MORE ABOUT CUSTOMER SERVICE, NOT POLICY. It's not that they just took him off the flight. It's the pre-boarding procedure, the 8 minute wait after removing him from the flight, the refusal to answer simple questions regarding his ticket and payment, telling him the Captain (who he never saw) wanted him removed and refusing to give the Captains name (followed by an apology that states the Captain never asked for him to be removed but asked for the flight to get boarded quickly which removing him from the flight kinda defeated that purpose, so the chic probably just lied to his face), etc. 4. KEVIN BUYS A LOT OF SEATS FROM THIS AIRLINE, OR USED TO. Yeah, all you people so happy they bumped him like your future business means anything... Well, Kevin (as well as his friends I'm sure) once used SWA frequently...I think he said he bought 10 tickets last week alone. So yeah, SWA just lost a very valued customer, and considering he has a lot of fans, and most of America fall into his weight range who are now scared to fly SWA because they might too get humiliated for no apparant reason...yeah that will dent the annual report.
Captain_Jack_Ha
Explorer C
The airline industry has treated coach passengers like cattle, for decades. Airlines may order planes with any seat width and arrangement desired. They choose cramped ones. Unfortunately, the "Passengers' Bill of Rights" movement lost any hope of coming to be, ever since the idiot towel-head incident of 9/11. Consequently, we all suffer ridiculous Security Theater, and that mouthy stewardess wields more power than ever. Blame the airline industry and Congress, not your fellow maltreated passenger. AIRLINES SHOULD BE COMPELLED BY LAW TO ACCOMMODATE EVERY PAYING PASSENGER, NO MATTER HIS SIZE. It is baloney to suggest that they cannot do so. P.S. As for the self-righteous who are prejudiced against larger people? Truly ugly.
e41308
Explorer C
What if the airlines put seats in the gate areas of the airports that are the same size as the airplane seats? Then there will be no "humiliation" on the plane. It would be an addressed issue at the gate. When someone buys a (1) ticket, they are buying a (1) seat. If they need more than that, they should buy more than that. Think about the person who is squished next to the obese person. They paid for a seat, yet they should get 1/2 a seat? What do obese people do at the movie theatre, on a bus, in a car, in other public seating places? Southwest does their best to be fair to everyone. I don't think they intend to humiliate anyone. Unfortunately the media loves to give only the parts of the incident that they choose. Remember Y2K?
Pam2
Explorer C
SWA, DON'T BACK DOWN, DON'T GIVE IN! What has our society come to, that every time someone screams and stomps their feet we immediately are conciliatory to them?! It is your airline, they are your rules, and I, for one, do not have a problem with that. The only reason this jerk has made such a big stink is because he is trying to deflect his disgust with his huge self onto you!!!!!
Anonymous1399
Explorer C
A welfare plane ride for 100 bucks. What do you people expect. 1st class, room to move? An hour flight, get over yourself. I'm skinny. I can't gain weight, some fat people can't lose it. Deal with it, they are human and their money is just as good as everyone else. America. Your dignity is gone. This Airline, even though I haven't flown it (and never will now) has lost all of it's dignity. Gotta love Corporate America...and as people said. If someone with status and money to buy multiple seats gets treated like this, how is a regular person supposed to deal...oh yeah, by just shutting up.
MOG416
Explorer C
Thank you for enforcing your "Too fat to fit" policy on Kevin Smith! BTW I am a fan of Kevin Smith Movies, but I sure do not want to be sitting next to him on a plane. Could you imagine, Him in the center you by the window, good lord kill me now. It's B/S to think that the two passengers on each side would suffer. You SHOULD NOT be apologizing to him, just b/c he is a loud mouth, you did nothing wrong!
Jemma
Explorer C
I used to fly SW all the time. I'm fit and fit fine in your seats so that's not the issue. I have seen this blatant discrimination against overweight and obese people in the exact same situation this guy was in. The armrests came down, seatbelts clicked and still people are humiliated when SW employees decide to have a powertrip and boot them off seemingly as a punishment for being overweight. This is the last acceptable discrimination and it's disgusting to watch which is why I stopped flying SW. I gladly pay more to not have to witness this atrocity as well as fly with some of the most rude, obnoxious people I've ever had the misfortune to travel with.
Apache
Explorer C
The issue wasn't whether KS was "too fat to fly". Clearly he is a big man and he is the first one to say it. The issue here is the piss poor attitudes and handling of the situation by the SW personnel. Equally their inability to take responsibility for their error, their LIE (that the PILOT saw him and said he couldn't fit), and their lack of human relations skills. I personally will boycott SW.
Gary8
Explorer C
Hello Southwest: I will continue to fly SWA and I think that the large people (I don’t like to use the F*T word, it is rude) complaining are being selfish and not thinking about their own health or other people's comfort. Being overweight is something a person can do something about. I used to be a little overweight (20 pounds) and by age 40 I had diabetes and by age 48 needed a quadruple bypass (diabetics have a 4x greater chance of heart issues than “normal” people). Now for the last 10 years I have watched my diet and exercised and keep my weight and blood sugar normal. I am NOT pointing fingers at people with weight problems, I hear your pain and it is VERY difficult sometimes to watch my diet (the weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas with all the holiday parties can be HE*LL) but I do it because I NEVER want a bypass again. So please overweight people, before you get mad at me, please think about your health and be honest with yourself that you are not doing what you need to do to stay healthy, Having said that, when I pay for a seat I do NOT want to share my space with someone too large to fit in the seat he/she paid for. It is not my responsibility; it is not the airlines responsibility to accommodate you. Buy two or three seats (if needed) and live with it. As for any further legal action by the director, if the seat doesn’t fit we must acquit.
Anonymous681
Explorer B
Sounds like all the Haters didn't have a very good Valentine weekend. Take your anger out on other issues. Our world is in sad shape!
Jennyfer
Explorer C
I, along with my family and friends, will never fly SWA again!!
Anonymous2896
Explorer C
@Steven — Tue, 02/16/2010 - 16:28 Yeah, first of all, personal responsibility is doing your job. If you truly think the employees of the airport were actually doing their job, then you have no business working in customer service. Enforcing the policy is one thing, but refusing to answer simple customer questions.... Second of all, customer service means dealing with customer complaints. Funny how you perceive customer's irrational sense of entitlement...what about yours as a customer service rep? You get paid to listen and deal with complaints whereas the customer isn't getting paid to listen to yours. Third of all, Kevin Smith does work. He was at work trying to get home to his family that day. He is not your average spoiled Hollywood celebrity. He wrote and directed Clerks on a very small budget. His fame was not handed to him. So don't make it sound like he's not "an everyday worker." Fourth, Kevin does watch his weight and tries to live a healthy lifestyle no different than you. If you are going to knock the way a person lives, then the least you can do is research a little more about the person before you criticize. That day while waiting on the flight, he ate a half slice of pizza with a bottle of water. Does not sound like someone chugging down a Pepsi while inhaling their #1 with cheese. Fifth, realize twitter is just one of many places for someone to incorporate their right to free speech. Kevin has as much right to it as you.
Matt_-_a_freque
Explorer C
Just like with smoking twenty years ago, the American public has grown weary of the impact from tolerating people who are clearly oblivious, disdainful or apathetic to their impact on the safety, comfort and health of others. Mr. Smith's selfishness is only trumped by his vanity. Its not about you Kevin, or even the poor customer who had to sit next to you. As a frequent flyer, I can tell you that fitting in between the armrests isn't the litmus test here. Just because your hips will squeeze into a 17" wide seat doesn't mean the rest of your person isn't crowding into my space. I've sat next to obese folks (middle seat no less) where their hip and abdomen flab extend well over and past the armrests. Men's shoulders are often much wider, and don't forget the biceps resting on the chest flab experience. Try this test next time: if another person your size sat in the seat next to you, would you both fit comfortably? Could you both exit the row quickly in the event of an emergency? That airplane you are riding in? It is a 600mph guided missle. In the rare event of a "forced landing" most of us don't want to be crushed by you as you stomp past us on the way to the door. Or having to climb over your inert mass blocking the aisles. It's a safety issue here too folks. Should one person's convenience threaten the safety and comfort of others? Southwest courageously has said no - they are only the vanguard here, I'm sure soon not to be the exception. A number of people screamed and howled 20+ years ago about the injustice when smoking was finally banned on flights. Do you miss the smokers? Your flights are less expensive and safer because they are banned. Obese people, you have many travel options and you are not entitled to the seat next to me any more than two skinny children are entitled to fly in one seat for the same price because they fit. Buy the second seat, go first class, fly another flight or another airline. But enough of this selfish whining and entitlement. The discrimination here is for very good reasons - the safety and comfort of other passengers. Grow up and start caring about the person in the seat next to you - they might just save your life one day 🙂
DPhillips
Explorer C
I find it interesting that every person who has posted here and disparaged Kevin Smith do not seem to have bothered to collect all of the facts. 1) Mr. Smith purchases two tickets as he prefers to be left alone during his flight and he can afford it. If I could afford it, I would do the same and I am not a heavy person. 2) Mr. Smith was able to comfortably sit between two lowered armrests and therefore should not have been subjected to SWA's people of size policy in the first place. 3) Mr. Smith was lied to by the gate attendant as admitted by Ms. Rutherford. The pilot did not direct the staff to eject Mr. Smith, someone else made the call. 4) Mr. Smith was directed to his seat by a flight attendant who did not express any concern in regards to his size. 5) Mr. Smith was treated poorly by SWA staff when he complained about the treatment that he had received. As someone with 18 years of customer service experience, here's what I would have done (and avoided all of this mess to begin with): I would have sincerely apologized to Mr. Smith for the embarrassment he experienced during his ejection from the flight, then I would have refunded his money for both of the tickets he was going to use on the flight he actually took and let Mr. Smith know that I would be speaking with the staff to determine what happened and would provide retraining for anyone who was in need. I would have asked Mr. Smith if this was satisfactory and if he replied in the negative, I would have told him that I would pass his complaint up the ladder and let him know when someone would be contacting him. Then, I would have spoken to my employee, gotten their side of the story and determined whether the policy was applied appropriately. If it was, I would have discussed with the employee whether the situation could have been handled more tactfully to have spared the customer embarrassment. If it was not, I would have counseled the employee on how I would have handled that particular situation. I believe that SWA's policy is appropriate, however, the manner in which they enforce that policy is obviously flawed. If a customer is told prior to being boarded that they may exceed the existing policy limits (tactfully and professionally), they can choose whether to purchase a second seat or risk being removed from the plane if they do not fit between the armrests. I have personally been uncomfortable due to the size (not just weight, but height and broad shoulders as well) of the passenger next to me, but cannot justify the manner in which SWA handles this issue. As to the "safety" concern, there are many other passengers who are allowed to fly who may present similar safety concerns as an overweight person (wheelchair bound, casted appendage, blind, cannot walk unaided, etc.). Until those passengers are refused access, the "safety" issue is a moot point and should be removed from the policy. I believe that Mr. Smith was embarrassed and then initially ignored when he brought his concerns to the appropriate parties. If this situation had happened to me, I would have been just as angry as Mr. Smith. It was unfortunate for SWA that Mr. Smith has access to enough people via Twitter and his own website to have brought things to this level. For me, if a "celebrity" as many have deemed him, can be treated like this, how will I, an average person be treated. This entire situation could have been resolved with the proper level of customer service attention that every passenger should receive.
Anonymous1498
Explorer C
I think I'll wear traditional muslim garb the next time I decide to fly SW. Bet they'll boot some other fatty then, you PC asswipes. Screw SW.
chris_K1
Explorer C
I feel 2 ways about it. Smith isn't THAT big, but by the same token, at what point does the airline say "you know what, no, sorry." Kinda like height limits on roller coasters. At some point it becomes a safety and/or comfort issue. Was this about the way the situation was handled, or the simple fact that he was booted. None of it really comes off fully from either side. This is a case of one man using his celebrity status to voice his opinions (with good intentions or not) and a company doing damage control with PR rhetoric.
Kinsi
Explorer C
So...I'm over six and a half feet tall...am I allowed to ride Southwest too? Or do I risk getting kicked off because yes, my knees might be past my seat. Oh, but they don't interfere with the arm rest, do they. This is why I fly Airtran.