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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
CAS
Explorer C
As a "person of size" (or whatever you want to call it), my problem is not with SWA's policy. As someone else said, they are a private business and have a right to implement policies they believe are in the best interests of their customers. The problem is the way it is implemented. There is no way for a person to know if they are suddenly going to be removed from a flight in front of 100+ other people. Isn't there a way SWA could determine a person's ability to fly before they get on the plane? Have a test seat somewhere private so that no one has to be humiliated? If an overweight person knew beforehand that he or she was not going to be allowed on the flight, it would spare everyone, including the Southwest employees, a lot of time and hassle. I think even those who believe Southwest is right to exclude large passengers from flying with one seat would agree that the person being excluded shouldn't be humiliated in the process.
Anonymous1112
Explorer C
What is this "safety" I keep reading about in these comments? "Comfort and safety". I understand the comfort part. But the "safety"? Because an overweight person may be sitting next to you that's now unsafe? Hmm...what about the elderly and disabled? Would you want to be sitting next to THEM if there was an emergency and you had to exit your row quickly? Why doesn't SWA have a policy in place for them? Will you remove a disabled person from your aircraft? Or an elderly person? No? Why is that again? They're impeding my "safety" just as much as an overweight person might, are they not? It's so true what others have said - you discriminate against overweight people because you CAN. I've never liked SWA. This incident and the half-arsed apology attempt won't do anything to get me on a SWA plane.
jennyg
Explorer C
I would like addressed the horrible, ridiculous way in which the girl who sat next to Kevin on the second flight was treated. I'm rich, and I'm fat, and I can fit in the seat belt and between the armrests; I'm never spending a dime on your airline again. It's the last legal and socially acceptable prejudice, and I can't believe you are standing behind the way your staff behaved. Shame on you, Southwest. The fear of being treated like that in public is more than enough to make sure I don't use you again. I hate flying NWA, which is one of my only other options, but they've never treated me- or anyone I know- like *that*. They treat everyone equally horribly. They don't just pick on the fat ones.
Anonymous1149
Explorer C
Private companies have to accomodate people with different issues for many reasons, often government mandated. People who are naturally thin or "normal" will always assume that larger people are so by choice. Sure one can eat less, but it doesn't make you thin overnight and it can damage the quality of your life. Yes, you may be healthier, but you may not be happier. Just as thin people don't understand the joy of food, larger people may not understand the joy of running 26 miles. We are all different, why is one better than another? Does it cost the average person more to have handicap parking, ramps, fewer bathroom stalls, because one has to be bigger? Yes, be pay for it somewhere. What does it cost us to have anti-discrimination policies? Should we charge handicap parkers more because their spaces are wider? Should we charge us more when they get special seats at sporting events? Do we force deaf people who choose not to restore their hearing with implants more for closed captioning? If we are a true free market economy, I say we should. Pay for what you use. Southwest should have a couple of rows that are larger and those CoS can purchase those for a higher fee.
Anonymous2282
Explorer C
Your "apology" is still anything but. You are still insinuating that he was too fat to fly, while he maintains that he was seated, buckled in without a seat belt extension, and both armrests down. I already didn't "LUV" flying your airline, but this just seals the deal. I won't be flying Southwest again.
Heather12
Explorer C
Who is ever comfortable in an airplane seat? How do you not feel safe sitting next to a fat person? What the what? I hate to break it to you but normal=overweight in America. p.s. I weigh 100 pounds. But rude is rude and Southwest (and yes, probably just one employee in particular) was rude and now you are screwed.
Colleen11
Explorer C
THANK YOU SOUTHWEST.
Anonymous1317
Explorer C
I have sat by people FAR heavier than Mr. Smith on Southwest flights, and no employee has ever shown an ounce of care about my comfort (or theirs). That, coupled with the fact that the last three Southwest flights I have been on (since 2007) were delayed by over an hour each means that I will not fly your airline anymore. It's obvious to me that you don't care about your customers so much as your reputation and bottom line. I have the feeling that if you keep going in the direction you are going, both will steadily decline.
JessiDarko
Explorer C
Southwest is lying about this situation, and Linda totally impeaches herself here. Its pretty clear she called Kevin in order to make a pretense for this dishonest "We made up" blog post. Get the truth here: http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393
Lyle_Cunningham
Explorer C
As a frequent flier and a Southwest A-lister, I'm proud of the way the company has responded. You won't see any of the other big airlines acknowledge, let alone demonstrate 1/10th of the transparency that Southwest has. Could the process have been better? Yes. Southwest has acknowledged that. Will they learn from it. I believe so. To survive in this intensely competitive game, they already have had to out innovate the other guys. They take customer service seriously. It's their key competitive advantage. Having flown United, Delta and American over the last two months, I can tell you that the seats feel smaller, the boarding process is more cumbersome, the flight attendants are more burnt out, and their ability to turn a plane around and get me where I need to be on time doesn't come close to my Southwest experience. I encourage Kevin and any of the other folks who are upset by this incident to speak with their credit cards and fly another airline. You'll be giving the rest of us more room, and I suspect, a more genial flying experience.
Anonymous227
Explorer C
Too fat for one seat? Buy two tickets! Simple and obvious. This should not be a controversy.
Anonymous454
Explorer C
1. Your policy is subjective. 2. Your flight attendant lied. I will not fly an airline when the flight attendants are clearly untrustworthy and willing to lie on a report to make themselves look better. Other passengers didn't offer their input. A flight attendants observation cannot possible reveal the intentions of the other passengers. Corporate apologies mean very little to the American consumer.
DDUBBIEDO
Explorer C
SWA what a crappy backhanded apology! And you did nothing to admit your wrong-doing nor to clear Mr. Smith as too fat to fly. I saw him recently and he is by no means too fat to fly and can fit into a seat. You guys cling to his buying two seats like it's the holy grail. He explained over and over he didn't need two seats, but for privacy reasons he liked two seats. I have done that myself on occasion and I am not too fat to fly. I just don't get why your corp is digging itself a deeper hole. You have humiliated him a third time for no good reason; 1) kicking him off the plane 2) blogging the NOT SO SILENT BOB thing and lastly, 3) doing this ham-handed seg-way of an apology Give me a break! Who's your PR person, Kanye West? When are you corporations going to realize that you work for us, and not the other way around? Without paying customers, where would you be? You have lost a great deal of business today. I hope it was worth it. And from now on, Virgin America gets my business. At least I know, they would never treat a passenger so callously.
Anonymous523
Explorer C
Oh come on, this is completely discriminatory. There are dozens of other issues on flights that interfere with passenger comforts:Pets and Kids are a big one, the people who smell bad or use way too much perfume, the drunks, the elderly passengers who pose the same safety issue as an obese person would in blocking the aisles. SW tosses fat people all the time but not ALL fat people, just the ones who interfere with getting their non-rev pals on. If you complain about an obese person or any other person who invades your comfort, they do NOTHING unless it benefits their own seating plans.
Fred_Miller_IV
Explorer C
I am a Southwest customer and have enjoyed many flights on Southwest Airlines. I appreciate your customer service most times and your ability to get the planes out on time and safely to my destinations. I also love that you fly Burbank to Vegas to Buffalo. I go to Buffalo a lot. Again, I'm an avid fan of Southwest Airlines and enjoy flying this airline. I am also an avid fan of Kevin Smith and his movies. While I don't always agree with Mr. Smith, I believe he is passionate about the topics he discusses and speaks his mind which I enjoy. With all that being said, I do want Southwest Airlines to consider revising this "Person of Size" policy or at the very least recognizing that this is a problem. This is a clear discrimination of certain types of people. I am less horrified by the policy than hearing Mr. Smith's complaints of being embarrassed and singled out. There is a loss of dignity that was experienced and hearing his personal account on his smodcast podcast, I felt for him. I would just like to say that I have never experienced this on Southwest or any other airline and I am what I would consider a "Person of Size". I'm fat, I know it and I'm working on it. So are many other Americans in this great country of ours. I am aware that people don't want to feel infringed upon. I feel the same way. But air travel is more like a packed bus now except everyone needs a seat. I understand that when I travel, that I will not be the only fat person on board. Everyone wants to be comfortable when traveling. But everyone deserves the same level of respect. This policy on Southwest and other airlines is not clearly identified. You are relying on particular employees to administer this delicate policy but yet, no one asks me questions when I buy a seat. Perhaps this policy needs to be enforced differently. Perhaps a seat should be present at the airport and everyone should try it out if they want to. Like at an amusement park. I'm not sure there is a good way to administer this policy, but the truth is that it happens. This issue with Mr. Smith just has brought this delicate issue to the forefront. I do not agree with people posting comments on this blog that makes fun of or belittles people that are larger than them. I am concerned with this, because I have flown on many Southwest Flights and will one day I be singled out and embarrassed in front of a plane load of people? Again, I have never been. But I would consider myself fat. But I don't consider myself so fat that I would be required to purchase a 2nd seat each time. But maybe one day I am? The piece that disturbs me the most on this whole fiasco is that a person was embarrassed and a corporation was responsible and therefore damaged in the process. Thank you for the apology to Mr. Smith. Thank you for allowing this to stay an open dialogue on your site, which you could've very easily just stopped comments. I believe that this is a sensitive but important issue of our time. Americans are overweight, but that shouldn't mean a loss of rights even when flying in the air. I will continue to research and monitor the situation and hope to stay a customer of Southwest Airlines. I will not hesitate to take my business elsewhere if this problem feels like it's not being worked on. Again, thanks for the forum. Thanks very much with the well worded response from Linda Rutherford on this blog. A voice of reason amongst all the chaos. Much appreciated.
Anonymous1660
Explorer C
As repeatedly demonstrated by SW Airlines, apology and corporate self-righteous justification just don't mix. This is becoming painful to watch. I hope this apology phobia stems from fear of mass legal recourse and not simple pigheaded stupidity. A simple "We're sorry. Our bad. It won't happen again." could've turned this PR disaster into one narrowly averted and a potentially costly lesson learned cheap. It's not too late, but SW seem decided on following the road to ruin on this issue. Just to clarify for opinionated morons walking in on this story late with no prior knowledge and a lot to say. The issue is not the policy itself, but the callous and capricious execution of said policy.
Anonymous296
Explorer C
You screwed up and aren't owning up to it. Kevin fit in the seat without spilling over and could buckle his belt. Try harder at admitting when you're wrong instead of the corporate doublespeak.
Anonymous191
Explorer C
I've had incredible customer service from Southwest Airlines for over ten years. As a frequent traveler, I can say that I consistently choose Southwest because they are accommodating, friendly, and helpful. The part I think its surprising about this whole uproar is that no one seems to remember that Southwest Airlines was accommodating Kevin Smith by placing him on a flight that was earlier than the flight he paid for-- the one for which he'd purchased two seats. For him to have an online tantrum about this issue is ridiculous. Everybody knows space is tight when flying on an airline. I'm a slim-built, fit woman. It's not fun going to the gym, but it's part of my value system and my respect for myself and my friends and family to take care of my body. Face it America, you can't demand personal space and eat super size. My guess is that Mr. Smith has significant shame issues of his own that didn't originate with Southwest. Thank you, Southwest, for handling this issue with class. You're my favorite airline, hands down. See you Friday, in fact! Thanks for the LUV.
Anonymous191
Explorer C
I've had incredible customer service from Southwest Airlines for over ten years. As a frequent traveler, I can say that I consistently choose Southwest because they are accommodating, friendly, and helpful. The part I think its surprising about this whole uproar is that no one seems to remember that Southwest Airlines was accommodating Kevin Smith by placing him on a flight that was earlier than the flight he paid for-- the one for which he'd purchased two seats. For him to have an online tantrum about this issue is ridiculous. Everybody knows space is tight when flying on an airline. I'm a slim-built, fit woman. It's not fun going to the gym, but it's part of my value system and my respect for myself and my friends and family to take care of my body. Face it America, you can't demand personal space and eat super size. My guess is that Mr. Smith has significant shame issues of his own that didn't originate with Southwest. Thank you, Southwest, for handling this issue with class. You're my favorite airline, hands down. See you Friday, in fact! Thanks for the LUV.
Anonymous191
Explorer C
I've had incredible customer service from Southwest Airlines for over ten years. As a frequent traveler, I can say that I consistently choose Southwest because they are accommodating, friendly, and helpful. The part I think its surprising about this whole uproar is that no one seems to remember that Southwest Airlines was accommodating Kevin Smith by placing him on a flight that was earlier than the flight he paid for-- the one for which he'd purchased two seats. For him to have an online tantrum about this issue is ridiculous. Everybody knows space is tight when flying on an airline. I'm a slim-built, fit woman. It's not fun going to the gym, but it's part of my value system and my respect for myself and my friends and family to take care of my body. Face it America, you can't demand personal space and eat super size. My guess is that Mr. Smith has significant shame issues of his own that didn't originate with Southwest. Thank you, Southwest, for handling this issue with class. You're my favorite airline, hands down. See you Friday, in fact! Thanks for the LUV.
Anonymous454
Explorer C
1. Your policy is subjective. 2. Your flight attendant lied. I will not fly an airline when the flight attendants are clearly untrustworthy and willing to lie on a report to make themselves look better. Other passengers didn't offer their input. A flight attendants observation cannot possible reveal the intentions of the other passengers. Corporate apologies mean very little to the American consumer.
nolan1
Explorer C
Policies being in place for a long period of time does not necessarily mean that they are correct and if the employees are not properly trained as to when and how those policy should be implemented then those policies aren't of much use. Would you insist on somebody your employees deem too big purchasing an extra ticket on a flight that is only half full anyway? Or is that policy more strictly enforced on half full flights in an effort to boost revenue? Shame two fatties into buying an extra seat, then sit them next to each other and presto you just sold four tickets for three seats. You could arguably have a flight with 90 passengers on it but somehow manage to sell 110 tickets even though there are only 100 seats on the actual plane. You say that the pilot did not ask for him to be removed but you fail to clarify who did make that call and why Mr. Smith was lied to about it. Now if Mr. Smith did fit in the seat without effort and he was not ejected because of his size why do you insist on ending this message by insinuating that his size and the lack of an extra seat for him was the reason he was removed? I arrived at this site from a link on Kevin Smith's blog and if anybody would like to read his version of this very same conversation you can read it here: http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393
Anonymous4544
Explorer C
I know Kevin Smith is fat...but he isn't THAT fat. He's not obese. He CAN fit in ONE seat. That's what everyone seems to not understand. Okay, obese person needs more than one seat = bad. I get it. Whatever. It's stupid but I get the reasoning. But kicking out someone who CAN fit in the seat? You messed up. Just own up to it.
Cali
Explorer C
I'm a United Premier member who is tired of being treated like a number. I was thinking of switching to Southwest because I thought it might have better service and place a higher priority on customer service. This has changed my mind. I'm sticking with United - the devil I know. And, in case anyone is wondering, my BMI is in the "normal" range.
Dallas_FF
Explorer C
Hmmm so you have a 25 year old policy that was put in place when people were smaller and seats were roomier. Ever think to take a look at that? Might not be working out for you anymore, ya think? I am a "normal" sized passenger (5'5", 140lbs) and MY LUGGAGE gets more legroom on your planes than I do. Combine that with the fact that you don't fly direct ANYWHERE out of Dallas, and why would I want to fly Southwest? Is saving $30 really worth the price of random and arbitrary public humiliation to feed the ego of an underpaid flight attendant on a power trip? Is this what we as a society have come to? How sad. You can be sweet as pie, say please and thank you all day long, but if a flight attendant doesn't like what you are wearing, how you look, how big your behind is, what your kid is like (or might be like), or what you drink for breakfast (has anyone asked for OJ in First Class on AA since "Helen" went postal?), you get kicked off, or even worse, written up to be put on a "watch" list. These are people who are SO unhappy with their job they take it out on their customers (read Heather Poole's blog for a good example, or the Today In The Sky sniping between AA FAs and, well, everyone else).
Patrick_Cullen
Explorer C
I have flown Southwest for many many years and have had good and bad experiences. I have been fat most of my life and I am not ashamed of it. I like Mr. Smith usually look for the most comfortable fit when I would look for a seat. I also like Mr. Smith have never had a problem putting the arms down, buckling my seatbelt or even using my tray table. I have however been discriminated against because of my weight and I am here to say that it is the most humiliating thing that can happen to someone fat like me. After reading your "apology" and also how many of your customers support 'fat man discrimination' I will gladly pay the extra 100 or so dollars to fly on a different airline. There is absolutely no excuse for poor customer service.
Anonymous3321
Explorer C
Disgusting behavior SW. This is no apology at all and is deceptive in the extreme. Shame on you.
dfj
Explorer C
Isn't the issue at the core of the problem here (which many posters here are missing) the fact that Kevin is not really large enough to fall into the category of needing two seats. (although perhaps the original booking being of two seats led the SWA employees to presume that was the case) Comments against Kevin seem to be saying that good on SWA cos fatties *should* have to buy two seats. But the problem with that view in regard to this case is he's actually NOT enough of a fattie to fall into that category. Despite SWA's disingenuous attempts to constantly paint this as the underlying problem. One could understand if the SWA employees figured, due to his two seat booking, that 'whups he's a two seat fattie getting into one seat, bump him' ... we can buy that. The problem is that at the end of it all SWA doesnt seem willing to acknowledge that he's not a two seat fattie in the first place and that bumping him based off your 'person of size' policy was the wrong call. Im not even sure he's against that policy, but SWA seems to keep trying to make this into a case about that policy, instead of saying it didn't apply here but SWA staff mistaken though it did.
Anonymous16111
Explorer C
I've flown SWA at 300 lbs (never had to buy an extra ticket, though sweated bullets at the gate for fear of not being able to board the plane) and 150( current weight for last 4 years) and I can clearly state from ALL other airlines I have flown in my 40+ years, SWA's SEATS are THE SMALLEST out there in the industry. Why not stop trying to fit as many people you can on a plane and charge an extra 20 bucks for more roomy seats with actual *gasp* leg room. And while I am at it, don't throw a bag of chips at me either. Even though I am a smaller person now, I can still see the difference in the size of your seats and the way you herd people onto your planes is ridiculous. This first come first serve business, if you are that worried about fatties, put them on the plane FIRST along with the children and others that need assistance with seating. SWA this was your last straw- you are dead to me now for the way you have handled Kevin Smith's situation. It is inexcusable. Jet Blue figured it all out and they now get my business!
Anonymous16111
Explorer C
I've flown SWA at 300 lbs (never had to buy an extra ticket, though sweated bullets at the gate for fear of not being able to board the plane) and 150( current weight for last 4 years) and I can clearly state from ALL other airlines I have flown in my 40+ years, SWA's SEATS are THE SMALLEST out there in the industry. Why not stop trying to fit as many people you can on a plane and charge an extra 20 bucks for more roomy seats with actual *gasp* leg room. And while I am at it, don't throw a bag of chips at me either. Even though I am a smaller person now, I can still see the difference in the size of your seats and the way you herd people onto your planes is ridiculous. This first come first serve business, if you are that worried about fatties, put them on the plane FIRST along with the children and others that need assistance with seating. SWA this was your last straw- you are dead to me now for the way you have handled Kevin Smith's situation. It is inexcusable. Jet Blue figured it all out and they now get my business!
Anonymous16111
Explorer C
I've flown SWA at 300 lbs (never had to buy an extra ticket, though sweated bullets at the gate for fear of not being able to board the plane) and 150( current weight for last 4 years) and I can clearly state from ALL other airlines I have flown in my 40+ years, SWA's SEATS are THE SMALLEST out there in the industry. Why not stop trying to fit as many people you can on a plane and charge an extra 20 bucks for more roomy seats with actual *gasp* leg room. And while I am at it, don't throw a bag of chips at me either. Even though I am a smaller person now, I can still see the difference in the size of your seats and the way you herd people onto your planes is ridiculous. This first come first serve business, if you are that worried about fatties, put them on the plane FIRST along with the children and others that need assistance with seating. SWA this was your last straw- you are dead to me now for the way you have handled Kevin Smith's situation. It is inexcusable. Jet Blue figured it all out and they now get my business!
Melanie_Scott
Explorer C
I for one have always had a great experience with Southwest Airlines. I have never witnessed an employee be rude or do anything that should have been seen as negative. I applaud Southwest for they way they have handled the manner and in no way should they have been seen in such a negative light. Southwest is the only airline I will fly because of their performance in great customer service and all around service. Keep up the good work.
Anonymous2853
Explorer C
Yes, it is uncomfortable to sit next to someone who is "too large for one seat." However, let's be honest; in an effort to maximize profits by stuffing as many people as possible onto each flight, airline seats are not really big enough for one average sized person to fit in comfortably anyway. Instead of charging "people of size" for two seats, why don't the airlines make reasonably sized seats, spaced reasonably apart? Furthermore, does this "person of size" rule apply only to overweight people, or does it also apply to people who are over 6' tall and have to sit with their legs intruding into their neighbor's space because they don't fit under the seat in front of them? Everyone invades everyone else's space on an airplaine; anyone who has attempted to use the shared armrest when seated next to an armrest hog knows this, as does anyone who's lap has ever been invaded by the reclining seat of the person in front of them, no matter what size those people are. Why are airlines the only businesses that get to mistreat their customers and overcharge them for the experience?
Anonymous132
Explorer C
this blog is much nicer than the "Not so Silent Bob" joke of an apology. I agree with Southwest's policy, but that 'apology' wasn't sincere and I recommend firing whoever wrote it. You may as well have titled it 'fatty wants cake'
Anonymous191
Explorer C
I've had incredible customer service from Southwest Airlines for over ten years. As a frequent traveler, I can say that I consistently choose Southwest because they are accommodating, friendly, and helpful. The part I think its surprising about this whole uproar is that no one seems to remember that Southwest Airlines was accommodating Kevin Smith by placing him on a flight that was earlier than the flight he paid for-- the one for which he'd purchased two seats. For him to have an online tantrum about this issue is ridiculous. Everybody knows space is tight when flying on an airline. I'm a slim-built, fit woman. It's not fun going to the gym, but it's part of my value system and my respect for myself and my friends and family to take care of my body. Face it America, you can't demand personal space and eat super size. My guess is that Mr. Smith has significant shame issues of his own that didn't originate with Southwest. Thank you, Southwest, for handling this issue with class. You're my favorite airline, hands down. See you Friday, in fact! Thanks for the LUV.
Anonymous191
Explorer C
I've had incredible customer service from Southwest Airlines for over ten years. As a frequent traveler, I can say that I consistently choose Southwest because they are accommodating, friendly, and helpful. The part I think its surprising about this whole uproar is that no one seems to remember that Southwest Airlines was accommodating Kevin Smith by placing him on a flight that was earlier than the flight he paid for-- the one for which he'd purchased two seats. For him to have an online tantrum about this issue is ridiculous. Everybody knows space is tight when flying on an airline. I'm a slim-built, fit woman. It's not fun going to the gym, but it's part of my value system and my respect for myself and my friends and family to take care of my body. Face it America, you can't demand personal space and eat super size. My guess is that Mr. Smith has significant shame issues of his own that didn't originate with Southwest. Thank you, Southwest, for handling this issue with class. You're my favorite airline, hands down. See you Friday, in fact! Thanks for the LUV.
Sandra_Smith
Explorer C
The actions take toward Kevin Smith by SouthWest Airline was appauling and disgusting. If the airline has this policy it should be handled before a person boards the plane and is seated. He did not fit the criteria to be removed from the plane since he was able to lower the arm rest and buckle his belt without an extension. This was intentional humilation on the part of the airline and they were successful. Mr. Smith was escorted off of the plane like criminal or a sub human that did not deserve any respect simply because of his weight. I was extremely appauled when I read an article on this incident and then listened to Mr. Smith's pod cast. For those ppl that applaud the airline would you have the same attitude if this had been an african american being removed because they were black? This is discrimination yet ppl are agreeing with it and agreeing with this disguting behavior by the airline employees, which makes me even more sick. Adults have become school children chanting fatty fatty, and four eyes at ppl who wear glasses. This type of behavior is not only disturbing but it is appauling that it is encouraged and accepted as appropriate society behavior. As far as I am concerned I will never fly this air line and I will encourage all of my family and friends to not use it as well. An apology can never undo what occured nor the humilation that followed Mr. Smith as he was removed from your plane. If airlines were as willing to profile a could be terrorist like they do over weight ppl then air planes would be safer forms of transportation. Your air line is so concerned about safety but yet "shoe bombers" and "under wear bombers" are seated without question because they are slender. Simply amazing that the priorties of the air lines are centered on over weight ppl rather than real issues of safety. Personally I would feel safer on a plane filled with overweight ppl because to date not one terrorist has been fat they have all been slender. Get your priorities straight before your only passengers are the pilot, co-pilot, and the crew.
Heather14
Explorer C
For all the people so worried about the dangers posed by fat people flying, you clearly have no sense of perspective, which is really funny, considering the issue. I'm sorry you've been so inconvenienced by another human being... oh, or did you forget that that's a human being sitting next to you, and not a "tubby", a "lardo", a "fatty" or any of the other litany of dehumanizing, insulting, infantile terms I've seen around this story today? Safety issues are things like explosives, guns, knives, hijackers on airplanes. It's people who try to fly airplanes into structures that planes aren't meant to be flown into, trying to light themselves on fire in order to ignite the explosives they've smuggled in their underwear, or the infinitely more likely, equipment malfuctioning on the aircraft. In NONE of these scenarios does the size of the person sitting next to you have ANY EFFECT WHATSOEVER on if you will survive the flight or not. ZERO. NONE. If weight and balance is a safety concern, then weigh everyone and everything that goes onto the plane and strictly enforce luggage rules. (I've seen oversized duffles carried on and tried to be shoved into overhead compartments, into underseat space, and then just held in the passengers lap... not an instrument that a seat was purchased for... a piece of carry on luggage that didn't fit and wasn't stowed.) If it's not a safety issue, and it's a matter of customer courtesy, then apply it according to that standard: other large passengers are not ejected, despite impinging on other customers, and Smith tells us that another customer was publicly humiliated when there was no issue of her possibly impinging on another customer's space. This says that not only are the staff consistently rude to people (Not just Smith) but they're inconsistent with application of the policy... meaning this amounts to little more than high-school or junior high bullying. I stopped flying SWA several years ago when their application of this "25 year old policy" began to be enforced more than it had been before. It's clear that my choice to not fly with them has been a good one; their bullying tactics haven't changed. I'm just sorry to see so many people think that they should be applauded for inconsistent application of a policy that results in public humiliation of HUMAN BEINGS. Congratulations, bullies. You all suck.
Anonymous364
Explorer C
Mr Hollywood ought to buy his own plane or go Fed Ex, what right does he have to impose himself on the other customers. Another all about me society freak that is whining, way to go Southwest, you are a very fair airline and I am sure now that the Hollywood freaks are going to be on attack, sure wish other airlines would do the same. Kevin is a big baby looking for a new story to get his name out there. He still flew later so it must really have been a publicity event as if he was really upset I doubt he would have flown you guys...Dude needs to get a life...
Rguffman
Explorer C
C'mon! Your "policy" makes sense. Change it. Or at least admit what you did. Mr Smith is right: If you simply copped to what happened, it would not have been blown out of proportion. Love, Richard "No Longer Using SW Airlines" Guffman
Anonymous2885
Explorer C
We are planning a vacation this summer. We were planning on using Southwest to fly for part of the trip. Three flights, six tickets. I know, it's only $500, but we will now not fly Southwest. We are cancelling our Rapid Rewards memberships and renouncing any credits that have been built up. I have uninstalled the Ding! app on my iPhone. The policy is unevenly enforced, inconsistent and capricious. There is no way for me to know right here and now if I am "too fat" for your airline. I have never had a complaint, but when I was anorexic, I couldn't fly with the arms all the way down on the old United west coast shuttle. That's genetics for you. However, men with large shoulders or tall people - not a problem, because THEY'RE NOT FAT. People who smell? THEY'RE NOT FAT. People with screaming children? OH GOD NO, AND THEY'RE NOT FAT. Fat people know they're fat. For every self-righteous person with good genes, trust me that if fat people could just lose the weight, most of us would, because we're tired of having your sanctimonious attitudes foisted upon us. WE GET IT. WE'RE FAT. OH MY GOD WE'RE FAT, and we have the temerity to go outside of our houses and BE FAT IN YOUR PRESENCE. You have terrified me from ever buying a ticket on your airline because I have NO WAY OF KNOWING if I am Too Fat For Southwest. I will not put myself through potential public humiliation. Yes, i exercise. Yes, I try to lose weight.
Anonymous522
Explorer C
I wanted to share my own experience with SW as a person who needed to buy an extra seat. Several years ago I was over 300+ pounds and was told I would need to purchase the extra seat even though I was flying with my mother and even though the flight was not full. ( they did not ask my mother to move, btw) I did this and made sure to prepurchase an extra seat for the trip home. I had flown about 5 times previously with sw with family members but had not been asked to purchase the extra seat. On the flight back, the plane was full and the aisle with my mother and I had the one empty seat. SW sold this to a gentleman flying stand-by, even though this was a seat I had purchased. I did not get a refund because I was told it was up to me to tell the man not to sit there, but he had been seated there by a SW attendant. Had I told him he could not sit there, that would be me telling him he could not fly on that flight. I did not feel at all comfortable doing that. Again, I was not refunded. The problem is that there is such a randomness on how this policy is enforced. If SW would simply enforce it regularly prior to boarding and clearly state when you buy the ticket that you will have to purchase a second seat if you are very overweight, there would be no incidents like the one Kevin Smith has exposed. The fact that the gate attendant wanted to know if Smith was a Revenue passenger says to me that this is probably about a non rev employee friend/family member needing that last seat and Smith was the easiest one to boot since he was flying stand by and was big. Otherwise they would have booted all the obese passengers and they did not. The issue is not whether the obese should have to purchase extra seats, its that the policy is not enforced correctly and without humiliation. You do NOT take one fat guy off a plane once they have been seated for this issue while letting others of the same size stay.
Mae
Explorer C
While working overnight security at a hotel in a town where Kevin Smith was working on a film I passed him in the hall & with a box full of what I can only assume to be comic books, he asked me where his room was (not uncommon for our guests as the hotel looked about exactly the same on all floors down each hall except to those of us that worked there). I lead him to his room and beamed with pride that I "met" THE Kevin Smith...not the movie maker/actor, but the intelligent man who became known for the aforementioned... With that said... There are several KINDS of fat. There is the 800lb man who needed a wall taken out of his house fat, There is John Goodman fat, There is Jason Alexander fat & heck there is John Travolta fat. (Please understand these are only used as examples of size that many people can visually understand and are not meant to be defamatory in any way.) For those of you that haven't "met" or seen Kevin Smith IN PERSON...HE IS AKIN TO JASON ALEXANDERS SIZE! So stop with the "Kevin should have gotten 2 seats" and the "He's too fat for one seat" stuff. He is far from it. Please people, stop speaking from assumptions & with ignorance that has been fed to you via the media. Figure stuff out for yourself before coming to a decision on something. The fact that Linda spoke with Kevin is sweet & kind. But the fact that Southwest still refuses to own up to the fact that SOMEONE in their company made a bad move by SAYING that he was "Too Fat To Fly" is utterly disgusting. If you as consumers cannot even acknowledge that much...then it is true that our society no longer thinks for itself. I personally do not wish to use a company that cannot educate all of their employees on their standards & let their employees use their own bias judgmental opinions in order to conduct business.
Heather14
Explorer C
For all the people so worried about the dangers posed by fat people flying, you clearly have no sense of perspective, which is really funny, considering the issue. I'm sorry you've been so inconvenienced by another human being... oh, or did you forget that that's a human being sitting next to you, and not a "tubby", a "lardo", a "fatty" or any of the other litany of dehumanizing, insulting, infantile terms I've seen around this story today? If weight and balance is a safety concern, then weigh everyone and everything that goes onto the plane and strictly enforce luggage rules. (I've seen oversized duffles carried on and tried to be shoved into overhead compartments, into underseat space, and then just held in the passengers lap... not an instrument that a seat was purchased for... a piece of carry on luggage that didn't fit and wasn't stowed.) If it's not a safety issue, and it's a matter of customer courtesy, then apply it according to that standard: other large passengers are not ejected, despite impinging on other customers, and Smith tells us that another customer was publicly humilated when there was no issue of her possibly impinging on another customer's space. This says that not only are the staff consistently rude to people (Not just Smith) but they're inconsistent with application of the policy... meaning this amounts to little more than high-school or junior high bullying. I stopped flying SWA several years ago when their application of this "25 year old policy" began to be enforced more than it had been before. It's clear that my choice to not fly with them has been a good one; their bullying tactics haven't changed. I'm just sorry to see so many people think that they should be applauded for inconsistent application of a policy that results in public humiliation of HUMAN BEINGS. Congratulations, bullies. You all suck.
Anonymous4108
Explorer C
Considering the original Southwest post and then this it seems to me, Southwest just doesn't want anything like "United Breaks Guitars" happening to them.
Anonymous1846
Explorer C
My apologies if someone has already written this, but I've read quite a few comments about the safety of having to climb over or negotiate movement around a "Person of Size". By that logic, perhaps we should bump asthmatics, paraplegics, quadriplegics, senior citizens, children, and anyone else who may, in the unlikely event of an emergency, may slow down the pace at which only homogenized passengers disembark.
Anonymous1259
Explorer C
I rarely fly, but I'm in charge of booking flights for about a dozen people who do and do so weekly. There is no way in hell I will book anything on Southwest ever again.
Anonymous3559
Explorer C
Kevin Smith's response to this blog: http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393 Yeah, we won't use Southwest again now. Happy to spread the word.
Sandra_Smith
Explorer C
The actions take toward Kevin Smith by SouthWest Airline was appauling and disgusting. If the airline has this policy it should be handled before a person boards the plane and is seated. He did not fit the criteria to be removed from the plane since he was able to lower the arm rest and buckle his belt without an extension. This was intentional humilation on the part of the airline and they were successful. Mr. Smith was escorted off of the plane like criminal or a sub human that did not deserve any respect simply because of his weight. I was extremely appauled when I read an article on this incident and then listened to Mr. Smith's pod cast. For those ppl that applaud the airline would you have the same attitude if this had been an african american being removed because they were black? This is discrimination yet ppl are agreeing with it and agreeing with this disguting behavior by the airline employees, which makes me even more sick. Adults have become school children chanting fatty fatty, and four eyes at ppl who wear glasses. This type of behavior is not only disturbing but it is appauling that it is encouraged and accepted as appropriate society behavior. As far as I am concerned I will never fly this air line and I will encourage all of my family and friends to not use it as well. An apology can never undo what occured nor the humilation that followed Mr. Smith as he was removed from your plane. If airlines were as willing to profile a could be terrorist like they do over weight ppl then air planes would be safer forms of transportation. Your air line is so concerned about safety but yet "shoe bombers" and "under wear bombers" are seated without question because they are slender. Simply amazing that the priorties of the air lines are centered on over weight ppl rather than real issues of safety. Personally I would feel safer on a plane filled with overweight ppl because to date not one terrorist has been fat they have all been slender. Get your priorities straight before your only passengers are the pilot, co-pilot, and the crew.
Anonymous1846
Explorer C
My apologies if someone has already written this, but I've read quite a few comments about the safety of having to climb over or negotiate movement around a "Person of Size". By that logic, perhaps we should bump asthmatics, paraplegics, quadriplegics, senior citizens, children, and anyone else who may, in the unlikely event of an emergency, may slow down the pace at which homogenized passengers disembark.