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My Conversation with Kevin Smith

LindaRutherford
Employee
Employee

I had the chance this afternoon to speak directly with director Kevin Smith. I let him know that in my 18 years here at Southwest, I have never dealt with a situation like what has been unfolding in the last 48 hours. I let Kevin know we have refunded his airfare. I told him we made a mistake in trying to board him as a standby passenger and then remove him. And I told him we were sorry.

 

 

Now, 48 hours later, after talking to many involved, we know there were several things going on that day and that our Employees were doing their best to get his flight out safely and on time, including finding seats for everyone and trying to accommodate standby passengers. The Captain did not single Kevin out to be removed, but he did ask that the boarding be completed quickly. At that time, our Employees made the decision to remove Kevin after a quick judgment call that he might have needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him. 

 

 

Although I’m not here to debate the decision our Employees made, I can tell you that I for one have learned a lot today. The communication among our Employees was not as sharp as it should have been and, it’s apparent that Southwest could have handled this situation differently. Thanks, Kevin, for your passion around this topic. You were a reasonable guy during our conversation.

 

 

Southwest, like most carriers, has a policy to assist passengers who need two seats onboard an aircraft. The policy is an important one for the comfort and safety of all passengers aboard a plane, and we stand by that 25-year-old policy. This has our attention, and we will be reviewing how and when this delicate policy is implemented.

1,803 Comments
Anonymous254
Explorer C
Oh look, SW is NOT the only one who will refund a seat if the flight isn't oversold. Some other airlines actually won't even make someone pay for another seat unless it becomes absolutely imperative. MSNBC has a rundown of various airlines' policies here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30314210/ns/travel-tips/page/2/ Looks like JetBlue, which flies most of the places SWA does, is nicer AND has bigger seats; win/win isn't it? For longer flights, try Air Canada or British Airways, since non-US-based airlines don't seem to have the same policies. (In Canada, the supreme court declared it illegal to discriminate against anyone, including overweight people, too bad it hasn't happened in the US yet.)
silvertone
Explorer C
In this ONE instance the airline made a mistake. But the policy is sound. I find it interesting that in all the comments I read, overweight people talked mostly about their own dignity and did not mention or acknowledge the discomfort caused to fellow passengers. I'd make a point of deliberately flying with an airline that strives to ensure the comfort of all its passengers in this way.
Anonymous3946
Explorer C
This is bullshit. I'm flying southwest on monday. I'm not as big as Kevin Smith but I'm about shaped like him. I lost 12 lbs in the past 5 weeks. I can definitely fit in a seat without discomfort to passengers next to me. I can't say the same for tall people. However I'm worried that Southwest is not going to allow me to fly. Flying sucks, I hate it, and part of the reason, other than the useless security measures, is this behavior by airline staff that happens all the time, not just with situations like this.
Alyssa
Explorer C
I just want to say (as an extremely thin person, who HAS had to sit next to a larger person on an airplane) that not all thin people have an issue with others' weight regarding airline seating. My heart goes out to anyone who has ever been in Kevin's situation, or something similar to it. To some of the previous posters: Just because I'm skinny doesn't mean I'll act like those Southwest employees. Hasty generalizations regarding thin people are almost on par with quick judgements about larger people. Shame on Southwest and everyone who supports this decision/policy. An apology is the least SWA can do; something needs to actually change. And kudos to Kevin Smith for taking an issue with this. Hopefully it's opened people's eyes to something that happens daily. To the people who say, "I paid for my seat, I don't want anyone crossing over into it" get over yourselves. Do you truly have such a blessed life that you take issue with the fact that, for the duration of a flight, someone will be a little closer to you than you're comfortable with? If so, then DON'T FLY. Airplanes are tiny spaces as it is; why would you try and make it more difficult for someone else who's already having a hard time? I would rather sit next to a fat person on an airplane than an insensitive idiot with a stick up their ass. Life's too short to split hairs.
Anonymous1167
Explorer C
I'm a physician who uses your airline on a weekly basis. Guess what? I'm a physician who will routinely fly another airline on a weekly basis. Learn how to treat people SWA.
What_about_Tall
Explorer C
What about TALL PEOPLE? Guys over 6 feet tall have to spread their legs out and it is ALWAYS uncomfortable to sit next to. Most planes are uncomfortable for most normal sized people. Obviously this was a arbitrary decision based on the fact that your employee had a personal issue with this particular passenger. And this kind of thing happens all the time. Airline staff feel entitled to treat people like crap ALL THE TIME.
Pegasus
Explorer C
The simple fact of the matter is this... If you are too large for ONE seat, you need extra room. Southwest airlines, like all others, has to step in sometimes and force people to do the "right" thing, ie. purchase two seats. It is not fair to anyone sitting in a row with a "customer of size" to be literally squeezed in their own seat just because the large person will not do the "right" thing and purchase the extra room they require. There is no need to slam large people and turn this issue into a shouting match. If you are large, take some personal responsibility and purchase the additional seat. I understand that large people want to be shown respect, but that is a two way street. And as far as Mr. Kevin Smith... I feel he is acting like a spoiled child and is probably doing long term damage to his career by acting the way he is... Let it go...
Anonymous4496
Explorer C
What a half-@**ed apology Linda. I totally agree with Kevin Smith, that was some bull that southwest pulled and I'm glad that he got pissed and I'm glad he blasted southwest airlines for what happened. And all you morons who are saying people should be able to run a mile in under 15 minutes or charging people based on weight...yeah why don't we do that? Hmmmmm oh yeah because that's called discriminating against a certain type of people and last time I checked discrimination is frowned upon, yeah that would be good for southwest's buisness, morons.
Anonymous1955
Explorer C
Your airline is possibly the most unprofessional organisation I have ever encountered. Your behaviour is inexcusable. I hope your discriminatory staff and policies cause your crap airline to fail. You sincerely deserve all of the crap coming your way!!!!
Anonymous377
Explorer C
Oh wow. SWA assholes. It's obvious from your treatment of the lady sitting next to Kevin that Southwest was either putting on a show or just out for more revenue. I mean, come on, Kevin already HAD two seats, you assholes KNEW the seat next to him was vacant yet you forced the lady to sit next to that empty seat THEN tried to force her to buy another seat or eject her from the plane. Southwest is just a bunch of revenue hungry assholes. Hear it HERE world, at http://smodcast.com/ #107.
Anonymous2950
Explorer C
I've never flown Southwest before, and after all this, I never will. You are unbelievable in the way that you treat your guests. 25 year old rule? Hot pants were in style 25 years ago. It seems like for people in the customer service industry, you've forgotten the most important part of your business.
Dan37
Explorer C
HOORAY for Southwest!!! Too often FAT people think that their "glandular" condition gives them the right to intrude into other peoples seats and lives. Their "glandular" condition is a SALIVARY gland problem and I have complained about fat people sitting next to me and their fat spilling over into my seat. Fatties need to buy two seats or lose weight before they fly. I support Southwest.
Nicole1
Explorer C
If people sized like Kevin Smith (who we now know CAN fit in a SW seat) have to buy two tickets just so you pompous "anonymous" morons aren't "inconvenienced", then I would like to see everyone with halitosis or body odor issues also be required to purchase an extra seat for the "convenience" of those around them... How about it SW, a new "customers of smell" policy??
Anonymous485
Explorer C
He was assigned to an earlier flight, then decided to go on another flight. He had two seats on that flight, because he understood his issue. Don't forget, this is a person of great wealth, who hasn't had a good film in a long time. Wow, here's a shocker...a celebrity craving attention at everyones expense. Yeah, expense, now an airline is paying the price for his Twitter followers. He knew, C'mon!!
Dale3
Explorer C
Southwest's BS "apology" is as much blaming the victim and refusing to acknowledge the blame for their screwed-up handling of this fiasco as if they said more Jews would have escaped the Holocaust if they were just smart enough to leave Germany but since they didn't well then they have to accept part of the blame... Either Smith met Southwest's standards or he did not. If he truly didn't, PROVE IT TO SETTLE THE PUBLIC DEBATE ONCE AND FOR ALL!
Anonymous3038
Explorer C
I think that people who have a cold or a beard or mustache should be removed also. Perhaps those wearing bluejeans. Maybe screaming babies. If a person can fit in a seat and put the armrest down then the airline has no more right to remove them than anyone else. You can take Southwest and put it where the sun doesnt shine. And you folks that hate overweight people - can follow it.
Amy_T_
Explorer C
I'm wondering why Mr. Smith booked 2 seats on the first flight (seems he knew full-well what the policy was) but not on the second flight?? Hmmmm...
Anonymous2761
Explorer C
Does anybody the size of Kevin Smith work for SWA or have they been terminated for being "FAT"? SWA needs to check themselves first - some of their pilots are not the "Thinest" in the world..
Ben4
Explorer C
MediaCurves.com conducted a media study among viewers of a news clip featuring Southwest Airlines’ decision to deny Kevin Smith a seat on a flight because he was larger than their size requirements. Results found that favorability for the airline decreased among both healthy-weight and over-weight viewers. Nearly one-third of viewers (32%) indicated that they were less likely to fly on Southwest Airlines due to this incident. More in depth results can be seen at: http://www.mediacurves.com/NationalMediaFocus/J7744-KevinSmithSouthwest/Index.cfm Thanks, Ben
Anonymous4272
Explorer C
I am a rather petite person myself, but I'm greatly offended by the way you've treated Kevin and other people of size. The man is not looking for a refund, he's looking for you to clarify your policy and define under what conditions a person needs an extra seat. (If his size doesn't meet that criteria for needing another seat, then I can't blame him for asking that you simply admit it.) No one else should have to suffer humiliation due to an employee's bad judgment call and until you clarify your policies, I won't be flying Southwest.
T_Taylor
Explorer C
I like Kevin Smith's work and am a business traveler. I am 50 and fly more than 100K miles per year. My visceral reaction toward Southwest in this incident is bad. I can't put my finger on why, I just don't like it. Prior to this incident, I admired Southwest, I even liked the show "Airline". I think this incident will most likely change my buying behavior. I did not have the opportunity to fly Southwest often (I don't live near a city Southwest serves) but I did travel on Southwest from time to time. Probably will now go out of my way to avoid Southwest now. Sorry for your problems Kevin. Good luck on your next movie
Anonymous4227
Explorer C
Your policy is a good one, number one for safety as well as comfort reasons, and is well known. Customers know the drill; this is not something new. It's similar to bringing on an oversized carry on bag....abide by the policies like everyone else. I guarantee that surrounding passengers breathed a sigh of relief when he left the seat. The customer in that next seat paid for their space, too, and not necessarily as a standby. Southwest, like any private company, sets their own policies and services (no baggage cost, flexibility). Anyone with concerns about the policies or services has options to take their business elsewhere. And I have the option to know that I will have access to the space I purchase on Southwest, without shoulder, arms and legs overspilling into my space, both armrests, and likely into the aisle space, even though someone can squeeze into a seat. My only criticism of Southwest in this matter, is that the airline was too accommodating to Kevin's request to fly standby -- he should not have been offered a single standby seat in the first place. But he is getting himself quite a bit of free PR and leveraging his name recognition/career. That's worth much more to him than the voucher. The man knows how to take advantage of a marketing opportunity.
Amy_Thomas
Explorer C
Linda, Why don't you go up the corporate ladder until you can find the highest person in SouthWest Corporate that is overweight and *may* need 2 seats to fly. Now ask them how embarrassed they would be if asked to leave the aircraft in front of a FULL flight. Then ask them if $100 voucher could make up for it. Shame on your company. Shame on everyone involved who hasn't just given a straight-forward apology without any "however our policy is..." If I could afford to NOT fly with you ever again - I would choose other airlines. As it is, I have to go to Texas in April and I'm going on FRONTIER instead of SOUTHWEST because of this situation and the fear that you may boot me off the plane because of my 2XL size. My $250 may not mean anything to you - but if enough people choose another airline you might start feeling it. Or not - who cares, I'm just one customer - but not yours anymore.
Nelson
Explorer C
Southwest has demonstrated unbelievable hardheartedness and poor judgment throughout this situation. I can safely say that I will never fly on your airline again. Surely this means very little to you, but it means a lot to me, and I hope there are others out there like me who are willing to take a stand against such a despicable and discriminatory company.
Big_T
Explorer C
Southwest used to be the fun, no frills, anti-establishment, little guy who would survive against all odds airline and I loved it, but now, it has become the oppressive, Air Nazi, fat police, sad, pathetic joke of a company that they used to fight against...keep up the good work!
Anonymous2613
Explorer C
Come on....you gotta admit Kevin is obese. The only reason this has gotten so much attention is because he is a "Hollywood" guy. Give me a a break, had this been Kevin Smith the clerk from Detroit, you wouldn't have heard about this. Sure people didn't mind Kevin Smith the Hollywood "movie maker" is taking up my seat space. But put Kevin Smith the regular guy and I guarantee......it would be a whole different story. Quit kidding yourselves people, you are star struck, and bias. Everyone who is so shocked....this policy has been in affect for 25 years! It is enforced a lot. The reason you are hearing about it now, is because an over inflated ego got challenged. I imagine, like many celebrities this caught him off guard. What's this he buys two seats for privacy???? O.K. so you took care of one person, but what about all the other hundred or so passengers all around you. Does he buy space in the airport as he waits to board the plan too? I have been on a plane where the arm rests went down on both sides, so alright the hips are taken care of....but what about that arm that's covering half of my body, and the fact I am now squished up against the other passenger as much as I can be and am totally uncomfortable. Come on Kevin, you have been in Hollywood to long, It's not all about you man.
Anonymous532
Explorer C
Amazing how many people that don't fly SWA post here and care what SWA does. As someone who travels very often and has flown on most airlines, SWA is the best IMO. Was a mistake made? Sure, and they are handling it. What about all the people that pay for the space on the plane, and yes you are buying space, that get less because of someone else spilling into there's? What about their "rights". For all those saying SWA is wrong with their policy, next time you have a flight happily pick that middle seat next to a "large" person. We'll see who is complaining next. And those that say they "will never fly SWA", please don't. We don't want your snobby butts next to us anyways. Besides, the planes are already full.
rswcsa
Explorer C
I understand the difficulty in enforcing the Customer of Size policy, however, I question why the gate agent allowed him to travel standby on another flight if 2 seats weren't available. The gate agent should have seen from Mr. Smith's original reservation that he had purchased an extra seat and therefore should not have allowed him to travel on the earlier flight. I understand the voucher as a gesture of goodwill, but a hundred bucks? I know that larger amounts have been given to passengers for smaller issues before.
Santa_Claus
Explorer C
Southwest: Where is your "My conversation with Natali"??? The girl that your Oakland customer service team harrassed? While the Kevin Smith story shows poor judgment, this is over the top. http://smodcast.com/
Nash
Explorer C
I am an A-list member on Southwest. I recently flew 2 weeks ago and had a similar situation. I sat in an exit row seat (on the aisle), there was a rather large man in the window seat, he was stretching the limits of the seat belt extender. The middle seat between us remained open until just about the time they were to shut the door for departure. All the sudden a man that uncannily resembled Andre the Giant walks on board and takes the middle seat, after “ordering” me to move to the middle, to which I less than pleasantly declined. This man in fact also then needed a seat belt extender. I spent the next 4 hour flight forced to lean into the aisle, getting slammed by the drink cart every time it passed. Bear in mind I am 6′3″ tall and weigh 200lbs. To add insult to injury, rather than try to help with the situation, flight attendants turned it into a freak show for themselves and the rest of the plane. Lots of pointing and giggling, followed by an announcement on the loud speaker about the "Big Boy Row". Needless to say Southwest employees were less than willing to help with the situation. I will not be flying their airline again anytime soon if this is how they treat repeat and loyal customers.
RedesignTheSeat
Explorer C
I'm fat. I've been fatter. Since I carry the bulk of my weight in my hips and I have broad shoulders, though I can buckle my seat belt and lower the armrests, a narrow coach airline seat will never be comfortable for me. Those of you "normal-sized" individuals who complain about your space sometimes being infringed upon by a fat person, consider this: flying for me ALWAYS sucks, and I paid as much as you did. When I can, I buy a business class seat. I try to avoid little turboprop planes, or when I have to take a flight with a "1 seat - aisle - 2 seat" configuration, I try to get a solo seat. I book well in advance. I buy window seats, so I can jam a shoulder into the window well for that tiny bit of extra space. I drive a lot rather than taking flights. I've purchased 2 seats for myself, only to have the added embarrassment of a flight attendant trying to put someone in that seat, or other passengers trying to sit there, next to fatty me. Great. Now I get to explain that it's my seat too, and get glares from people who consider me selfish for taking up the space I paid for. I've had the person on the other side of that seat choose to treat it as his/her own, like a bonus empty seat and an extra tray table, just for them. And of course, one should consider that the armrests don't fold all the way back, so it's not as if I now have a super-wide, comfortable seat. No. Now I have metal jabbing me in the shoulder or back if I dare to encroach on the additional seat I purchased. Thank you to both SWA and Kevin Smith for inadvertently opening public discussion on this topic. Blaming fat people for the discomfort of others isn't the solution. A redesign of airline seating would be a start.
Tom_P
Explorer C
you should get a leash on your thug employees. Terrible.
Anonymous3946
Explorer C
He was not too large for one seat, unlike very tall people often are. That's the bottom line. Anyone arguing with that premise is either stupid or lying.
e41308
Explorer C
I Know! Lets put all the obese passengers together in the same row. If they do fit in one seat each as they claim, then they should be quite comfortable.
Anonymous4323
Explorer C
Your policy may have not changes in 25 years but: a. Americans are bigger than they were 25 years ago b. Your seats are smaller I understand the dilemma you face but don't seat people and then remove them in front of people. If someone is to big tell them before boarding.
Sunny2
Explorer C
Southwest Air needs to realize it is NOT the "two seat" requirement that is the problem. It's how it is enforced and the rudeness and humiliation that is inflicted IN the enforcement. There simply has to be a better way, a more HUMANE way, to inform an overweight individual who does require two seats, unlike Mr. Smith, to be told this PRIOR to being in front of a planeful of people. The outrage against SWA is not necessarily the two-seat policy, but how SWA handled this entire situation.
Anonymous3954
Explorer C
I am overweight and I hate sitting next to people who infringe on my personal space on a plane! the last flight I took the person next to me elbowed me constantly in my chest! I fit JUST FINE into a plane seat I don't need a seat belt extender either. God Skinny people you think you think you rule the world. The guys who said every one should have to run a mile in under 15 mins is just insane I am sure they would everyone to get on a scale too so he can laugh at anyone over 100lbs!
Anonymous1479
Explorer C
Good on Southwest for sticking to it's policy. He should have taken his original flight and not flown standby. The rest of the flying public who can fit comfortably in our seats appreciate your policy. I will continue to fly Southwest and recommend to my co-workers, friends and family to do the same.
serendipity
Explorer C
First of all I'd like to say this is my very first time Blogging on Southwest or any blogging site....WoooHoooo....Tonight's Gonna Be A Good Night!!! With regards to the COS situation. I wasn't sure how I felt about Southwest publicly apologizing to Kevin Smith. Would a regular Joe Schmoe off the street received a formal apology as well? Who knows for sure!!! In my opnion I don't SWA needed to apologize for a policy they've had in place for 25 years. I also don't think it's fair to SWA that Kevin Smith is TWITTERING and giving SWA a bad reputation and trying to boycott this GREAT Company. This was a tough situation, because Kevin Smith purchased a two tickets (KNOWING HE WAS WELL AWARE OF HIS SIZE) for a later flight, he then decided to go standby on an earlier flight which only had one seat available. I've decided that both SWA and Kevin Smith are both at fault in this situation. 1. SWA should have not allowed Kevin Smith to go standby on the earlier flight because they were well aware he purchased two seats for ONLY himself (There's your sign?). 2. Kevin Smith was also well aware he purchased two seats and therefore, he should have NOT requested to catch the earlier flight knowing he would not be eligible to go on that flight because there was only one seat available. I really think that COS's really need to reevaluate their lifestyle and make some drastic changes, not only for HEALTH reasons but for their CHECKBOOK. I know if I was in a situation where I was told I had to purchase two seats I might want to think about making some serious changes in my diet and exercise. Kevin Smith have you called Jenny yet?
Anonymous502
Explorer C
Southwest Airlines say the fat policy is for safety of the other passengers. They should also eliminate the elderly and handicapped for the same reason. Why is it only fat people are the safety problem. Am I wrong?
Anonymous1329
Explorer C
The level of ignorance by the flying public is amazing! Ever occur to you people Mr. Smith was profane and being a complete jerk is the reason he was asked to take another flight? And don't forget he is getting a lot of free publicity for his movies. Go ahead and fly another airline. All of you who think you can drop the F bomb on a flight need to be together. It's all about YOU, YOU, YOU. Wake up!
Webb00000000000
Explorer C
You have lost my business. FOREVER. For your treatment of Kevin Smith.
Anonymous3994
Explorer C
Hahahahahahahahaha
Anonymous2543
Explorer C
I find your "apologies" insulting....as well as your "person of size" policy. Do you not realize that a person of size in real life includes those that are extremely tall??? I have been infringed upon by such a person who was seated next to me on a flight to Las Vegas. (the last time I flew with your airline as a matter of fact.) He was told by the flight attendant that his feet could not go into the aisle. So what was the suggestion....bend his knees and his feet went right into my area. (I was in the middle). I was about to complain when I was asked if I was able to buckle my seat belt (yes I was overweight (not obese) and frankly the seatbelt does not go around your bust).....a way to shut me up from complaining, probably. Point is your "Q and A" mentions someone with broad shoulders and how they don't infringe on seat room. I call BS. When someones elbow is in your chest....they are in your seat. How about adjusting your policies so they aren't discriminatory???? Or does Southwest get off on continuing the policy of being like the "A group" in high school.....the we get to pick on who we want when we want clique. Sadly the FAA lets you get away with it too.
John414
Explorer C
I honestly do not see what the issue is. If you are overweight, it does not entitled you to additional rented space for free. Therefore, if you require two seats, you need to purchase them. I understand this man has purchased two seats in the past (so he obviously understood that he requires them) however he did not obtain two seats for the flight in question and now it is a big issue. Southwest acted appropriately in this case and I hope will not hesitate to do so again in the future.
Tim_in_upstate_
Explorer C
I doubt anyone's going to read this as we're over 1500 comments in, but I find it disappointing that so many people are gullible enough to blindly believe Southwest and the media. (Hint: Try reading/listening to Kev's side of the story. Much different picture.) And it's doubly disappointing that weight is one of the few characteristics that society still finds it acceptable to hate. We frown upon racism, we frown upon ageism, we frown upon homophobia and xenophobia, but dammit, DOWN WITH FATTIES!!!!! America still has a long way to go... (And I could be wrong, but I believe Kevin's a lot lighter these days than he used to be at one time. Just because he's not super-skinny doesn't mean he hasn't lost any weight at all.) Finally, I really wish more people would realize that most overweight people are trying to do something about it. Don't hate just because they're not having much success.
Anonymous3512
Explorer C
It's better to have a skinny 90 year old blind guy with one leg than a fat guy next to you??????? "a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement."
Anonymous60
Explorer C
i am shocked you are defending the actions of your employees in this matter. the attitude conveyed in this blog post, and the last on the subject (which appears to have been removed) is nothing short of trite. no company can control the actions of each of their employees 100% of the time. isolated incidents like this one are bound to happen, even in companies with the best customer service. southwest's overall response to this matter, however, is inexcusable. i find this particularly disappointing coming from southwest, as i have long considered it the only domestic airline that is pleasant to fly. i, however, am not a "person of size," so for all i know, this type of treatment is systemic, rather than isolated. too bad.
Anonymous2905
Explorer C
Good for you Southwest! You have a policy, and you enforce it! Much appreciated!
Nikki3
Explorer C
It's probably a good thing that Southwest review all of their policies. In addition to the overweight seat problem perhaps they should review the passenger's with body odor problems and check these people prior to flying. Perhaps have a childrens section only so that you are not on a five hour flight with a child screaming and kicking the back of the seat the whole time with the parent that does absolutely nothing!! Clearly there are more issue than what is at hand. Let's address all them. Thank you, Nikki