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Not So Silent Bob

cday
Frequent Flyer C

Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight.  It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you.   We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines. 

As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.

Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest.  He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. We are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, we made a judgment call that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.

You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.

1,758 Comments
Anonymous391
Explorer C
Kevin Smith has a legitimate gripe with SW but OMG what is his problem. I listened to podcast and he sounds like an out of control addict. He contradicts himself several times during the rant stating he is usually calm and then him and wife agree that he can be very difficult to deal with when he is angered. He states he was threatening to use his status to get back at SW even before he got on the 2nd flight. Then he gets all righteous saying he wants to get back at SW for embarrassing his seatmate by calling her to the side and suggesting she buy a 2nd ticket. The guy is an out of control stoner, food addict and his wife exhibits typical co dependent behavior. Kevin you are a talented guy - take a good look at yourself!!
Anonymous391
Explorer C
Kevin Smith has a legitimate gripe with SW but OMG what is his problem. I listened to podcast and he sounds like an out of control addict. He contradicts himself several times during the rant stating he is usually calm and then him and wife agree that he can be very difficult to deal with when he is angered. He states he was threatening to use his status to get back at SW even before he got on the 2nd flight. Then he gets all righteous saying he wants to get back at SW for embarrassing his seatmate by calling her to the side and suggesting she buy a 2nd ticket. The guy is an out of control stoner, food addict and his wife exhibits typical co dependent behavior. Kevin you are a talented guy - take a good look at yourself!!
Anonymous2402
Explorer C
Mr. Smith did not blow it out of proportion.... but Southwest did. You guys handled it poorly. Don't blame the media or Mr. Smith for the bad PR. Blame your craptastic staff who acted poorly in that situation. Thank you Southwest for giving me a reason NOT to fly with you.
Anonymous2751
Explorer C
WOW! This is your apology? Sounds like you need a new PR person. I am a Southwest frequent flyer. Have read both sides (Kevin's Smodcast and your "Apology") and the clear loser is SOUTHWEST. I have, after "weighing" in on both sides, decided I'd rather not fly on an airline that chooses to humiliate their passengers and LIE to them. I recommend the following: 1) evaluate a passenger AHEAD of time for comfort level, before loading them in the plane to avoid humiliation. 2) Fire your PR person. Seriously. This is not how you handle customer relations. I am afraid Southwest, that you picked on the wrong fat person this time.
Anonymous2816
Explorer C
I have been a travel agent for 25 years. I have always loved Southwest for the ease of their policies... easy to book, easy to change reservations, no penalties, no hidden fees, name changes allowed for unused credits for unused tickets, etc. Southwest is correct that it is a long time policy, one that other airlines also have, that passengers must be able to fit comfortably in one seat, or purchase two seats. I am pretty fat myself, but understand this policy and have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with, is the humiliating way Southwest handled this incident. I have also had a client that this happened to on Southwest. It is a huge, and unnecessary embarrassment. Surely, the gate agent can access the size of the passenger, prior to allowing them to board the plane, and explain the policy to them discreetly. May I also say that many of my clients, most of whom are not overweight, purchase a second seat "for personal comfort." Perhaps Mr. Smith purchases a second seat just because he does not want to sit next to another passenger. Anyone who flies knows that coach seats offer very little space, even for the smallest of passengers. Regardless of how you feel about fat people, Southwest was wrong for the way they handled the situation.
Anonymous3244
Explorer C
Ehh I stopped flying when everbody got too scared to get on a plane without at least 3 anal probings.
Denn
Explorer C
I completely agree with Southwest. I fly SWA lot and I do my best to stay away from fatties. If the Politically Correct people who defend fat people would put their brain where their tush is they would realize that a number of obese people on one flight causes it to use more fuel -- that's a fact. Multiply that by hundreds of flights and its just not fuel efficient -- which increase fares. Why aren't all of you PC people "Green" about this???
Joanna2
Explorer C
My question is: How come your regular seats don't accomodate heavier people already? What gives you the rigth to determine the waist sizes of your passengers? You sound like a real money hungry company. I think you guys are the fatties.
Anonymous501
Explorer C
I don’t want to be the voice of reality, but have you ever sat next to a large person on a flight. They use your seat and it is extremely uncomfortable for yourself. As a frequent flyer I can live with the kicking children and the crying babies. They are not old enough to know better. Kevin you are old enough to know you do not fit into one seat. No excuses, arrange for two seats or don’t fly.
Anonymous410
Explorer C
SW Airlines: Unprofessional and discriminatory. I will never fly with you again.
Matthew3
Explorer C
I travel, and have been traveling for 4 years, for a company all across the nation. Most the time I use Southwest to get where I need to go, as the ticketing, boarding and ability to select your own seat makes them superior, in my mind to other airlines. I am a overweight, but have maintained the same weight for the last 4 years and have never had any issues with flying until a similar situation occurred to me three weeks ago leaving Albany, NY. Upon reaching my gate for my early morning flight home, the gate agent came on the loud speaker and announced: "Welcome to Southwest airlines, thank you for flying with us, we will be boarding soon, we are looking at 73 passengers today and 154 seats plenty of room." Not to soon after, while sitting waiting to line up for boarding, a gate agent asked me to step aside. He then had me walk over to the nearest Southwest ticket terminal where he proceeded to ask me whether or not I knew what southwest's extra seat policy was, I told him I did not. He then asked me how I normally road on the plain. Not being fully awake, nor being called out on my size in the last 4 years, I had not caught on yet that he was implying that I was to large to fit into one seat. I told him that I normally sit in a window seat somewhere close to the back of the plane. He then asked me if I kept the armrest up or down. I informed him that on full flights I keep the armrest down, but otherwise, as long as no one is sitting next to me, I spread out and enjoy the extra room. Who wouldn't? At this point the gate agent supplied no more rational conversation and informed me that he would be booking me an extra seat. At this moment, I realized that the gate agent had spent the last 5 minutes subtly calling me fat and telling me I couldn't fly home, and proceed to lose my cool. I argued that I had a history with the Airline and have never had a problem before, he apologized for the "lack of constancy" at other airports. I told him that my company would not purchase the additional seat and that I did not have the funds to purchase it on my own. This did not alter his actions. I told him that they just announced that the flight was half full, he stated that this could not guarantee that no one would be sitting next to me. Then finally I restated that this was my return flight and that no one at my home airport, or the airport I transferred through on the way up had made any fuss about my size prior. He finally broke and said that since this was my return flight he would make an exception. Never once did the gate agent ask if I could get my armrest down - which I can, comfortably. I took his full name and employee number, he took my boarding pass information, and I then proceeded to board my flight. Once on the flight, sitting at a window seat in a row all to myself, with my armrest down, I started to try and calm down. No sooner am I settled and trying to move on does yet another gate agent walk onto the aircraft, seeks me out and proceeds to speak with me further on the subject. "I heard about your confrontation out in the terminal." "I see you have your armrest down and that you have plenty of room here, good." "I wanted to give you this print out of Southwest's armrest policy." "I have also checked ahead for your connecting flight in Chicago, and It looks like you will have plenty of room on that flight as well." At this point I feel defeated and that I have nothing left to say. I kindly take the information from the gate agent, so that he will leave and so that I can put the whole ordeal behind me. It was bad enough to be hassled in the terminal. At least the terminal gate agent had enough sense to pull me aside to not humiliate me in public, but then sending another agent onto the plain to talk to me further, this time where there were people all around. Well, after a while it just started to feel like harassment. I came home from that trip with the intention of writing an angry letter to Southwest, complaining about the staff at the Albany Airport. But I didn't. I had to come home and go back to work. I took the approach that I was just one person to a huge corporation and what did it matter. I also assumed that since in the past 4 years it hadn't happened to me anywhere else that It was just the Albany Airport staff, it most likely was not going to happen anywhere else, and I wrote it off. Now I see was wrong in my assumption. Southwest say's that this policy is to help with Safety and Comfort, with this in mind I have the following questions: -Why does the person behind me, who talks for the entire flight, who causes me audible discomfort, not have to purchase an extra seat to distance themselves so that I can no longer hear them? -Why does the person who sits next to me, who has horrible body odor not have to purchase an extra seat so that I can no longer smell them. -Why don't those with long legs, which touch the the seat in front of them, have to purchase an extra seat, since there legs prohibit the person in front of them from laying their seat back fully. Outside of comfort and safety, do you train your employee's that work at the terminal to be able to spot who is capable of fitting into a seat and who is not? Do you have an inner office grading scale? Do you plan in the future to have a typical airline seat at every gate so that obese individuals can sit in and prove that they can get the armrest down before boarding the aircraft? To me the worst part is that within a minute of the announcement that my aircraft was only 50% full, being told I needed to purchase an extra seat. That just screams of greed, not comfort. Southwest, my future with your airline is indeterminate. I will say one thing, you calling me out on my weight was the best motivation I have ever had before, I came home and started dieting immediately, which is great, but not the place of an Airline.
Former_Kevin_Sm
Explorer C
Hey Kevin, stop being upset with Southwest, if you weren't morbidly obese this never would have happened. Typical whiny lib, blame everyone but yourself and throw a huge tantrum whenever someone tries to make you follow a rule you don't like. I signed this as a former fan, but since you haven't made a funny movie in like 10 years I guess that I've been a former fan since before this incident. Get over yourself and get on a treadmill.
xirishbratx
Explorer C
Your airline sucks. He was able to pass the (as he referred to it) arm rest test and fastened his seatbelt without the use of an extender. Where the hell do you people get off escorting him off the aircraft?
SWA_Fan2
Explorer C
I've watched the news report and read the tweets regarding this unfortunate scenario. Yes, the communication to Mr. Smith to ask him to leave the plane could have been handled better. However, I am a large person as well, and I fly regularly on SWA. There is no better airline out there as far as flying on schedule and more inexpensively than the other airlines. I have not had to buy 2 seats yet, but if I prefer to stay obese, I will have to do so. There are choices in life; Kevin Smith chooses to be large. Kevin, take the consequences of your choice and quit mouthing off with vulgar language on Twitter. If you expect to be taken seriously about a boycott, don't write information about the size of your "manhood" for all to read! That was gross and makes me wonder if you used similar language with the flight attendant. I will not boycott anything based on the rantings of a person who chooses to be both obese and obscene! Enough already!
Spanky
Explorer C
OK Southwest. If what you say is true (and you say that you must provide SAFETY to fellow passengers), then why is it you don't apply this rule to a person that is disabled (example: wheelchair passenger). I'm not discriminating against the disabled, but's let's be fair. If a "large" passenger puts other passengers at risk in the case of a air emergency (because they impede the flow of passengers trying to get out of plane)...how is this any different that a disabled passenger causing the same "SAFETY CONCERN" that you describe? Wouldn't this be double standard?
Danavision
Explorer C
I used to fly Southwest enough to get at least one round trip a year and it was more common to get two a year, but I refuse to fly with them since I was berated by the person checking my excess baggage in Portland. Not only did he tell me that if I didn't like it I could go fly another airline, but when I contacted Southwest they brushed me off as they couldn't do anything about it but I could file a formal complaint. I did and got a nice form letter back. I used to fly them because of their customer service and their baggage policy, but now I refuse to fly them and have many people in my business who love the media baggage policy but we are now spreading the word to avoid them. I use to argue with people who called them "Southworst" because I thought I had it down how they worked, but since they decided to drop customer service, I too call them Southworst!
John_Seven
Explorer C
Sorry Southwest... the more you try and "justify" your inappropriate behavior and your bad policies, the more you're going to lose. You need to make a quick 180, change your policies and change your PR about this incident. You're looking bad here and you're only making it worse. You've lost my business.
Wylie_H_
Explorer C
The way I see it, this guy has been flying all over the place on Southwest, taking advantage of the "Customer of Size" policy to purchase two seats together to give himself extra room (regular passengers are not normally afforded this opportunity). Then, when he gets into a situation wherein he suddenly decides he wants to change flights and there is only one seat left, he suddenly does a flip flop and says "hey, I'm not a big person after all!" So, the real question is: when was he lying: 1) During all the previous flights when he was using the customer of size policy to purchase the adjacent seat; or 2) During his last flight, when he flip flops--- then goes all nuclear on Southwest when they get caught off balance by his flip flop (and evidently instantaneous shrinkage into a much smaller form). Southwest has a sensible policy which fairly balances the needs of all passengers. If anything they've been to polite in enduring this guy's abuse and attempt to use this issue as a way to increase his popularity.
Anonymous4264
Explorer C
So, what is the objective standard for weight? I'm 250 lbs, but over 6'2". I've never heard of an airline apologizing for not providing leg room, but that's another issue. I can lower the armrests, and I am as competant to act in an emergency as any other passenger. Oh, and I shower everyday, brush my teeth, use deoderant, wear clean clothes etc so I don't smell! I'll be sitting next to my petite wife on the flight anyway. I'm holding a ticket for an SWA flight in a couple of months. It has never occurred to me that I could be removed from a flight, and it has never ever been an issue as far as I knew. I sent an e-mail to SWA when the Kevin Smith story broke asking for their objective standard (e.g. height to weight ratio, waiste size, etc,), but so far no response. I had to provide the date and flight number, so now I'm thinking I'm a marked man for raising the issue. Okay, I promise I won't ever fly SWA again if they don't want me, but what is the risk I will be ejected from my upcoming flight? It seems to me that without an objective standard, SWA is setting itslelf up for a lawsuit. I'm not worried about discrimination (if I were disabled and fat, I would ask for a "reasonable accommodation"). If I miss a business meeting because I'm too fat, but my fatter (yet less qualified) competitor is allowed to on the same common carrier airline and gets a contract because I wasn't allowed to fly, aren't there some damages here?
Anonymous585
Explorer C
all the women out there you better get ready cause you may be next. if your ass is more than 17.5 inches wide you will be encroaching your neighbors seat space and possibly deemed unfit to fly. got a boob job? you might be a "no-go" there too. i can see it now, upon exiting security passengers will enter a secondary screening area where height, weight, and measurements are recorded. next there will be a series of agility tests to ensure the person's ability to evacuate the plane without impeding others. a highly trained individual will then sniff your breath, armpits, and crotch to ensure there are no offensive odors. this program will be completely successful in weeding out the undesireable passengers, and suddenly everyone will realize that there is nobody left to hate on the plane other than ugly people. once the ugly people are singled out, and subsequently eliminated, flying will become one big giant love-fest in the air. so much so that pilots will forget to land and fly til the fuel is gone, and there are 137 less bigoted turds in the world.
Anonymous1754
Explorer C
I am what SWA would call a "Customer of Size", but not by much. I traditionally buy the extra seat, and since the flights I'm on are rarely full, I have always gotten a refund for the extra seat. It's a great policy, as long as the customers also take responsibility. For starters, it saves me the cost of having to go First Class on another airline - I'd gladly buy a 2nd seat at SWA's prices, than pay for the upgrade on United/AA/Delta, etc...(even Spirit Airlines' "large-front-seat" option is getting rather pricey these days, and they charge $25/bag). Also, it avoids the uncomfortable "gee do I have to squeeze next to the fat guy" that happens once I'm on the plane. Finally, it allows, in most cases, the ability to avoid having to bump customers of size in an embarassing fashion when boarding (like what happened to Kevin), since they already have allocated 2 seats to the big people who planned ahead and purchased them. Where it sounds like Mr. Smith went wrong is that (if all the facts are to be believed) that he tried to fly standby, when he knew he was considered a "Customer of Size" (or at least he had been buying the extra seat for some other reason.). As a frequent traveler, he should have known that on standby, if you fit, you fit, and if you don't, you get bumped. There weren't two seats for him, and he got bumped. Now, the issue of "would he fit in the seat properly" question isn't well documented - I'd guess he probably would fit, but we don't know how big or small he is these days. If he's like me, his weight fluctuates. What dawns on me is that this policy was working fine for years until one loudmouth Hollywood-type had his feathers ruffled, and he's tweeting incessantly about it to his minions. Other airlines I'm sure bump people as well, for similar reasons. If you don't fit, hey folks, you don't fit. I like to avoid the situation and risk, so I buy the 2nd seat and avoid the problems. The one issue I don't like about SWA's policy is that they use open seating, which means if you buy the extra seat, you a) have to board the aircraft early enough to get two seats next to each other (plus one for the wife), and b) defend on a fuller flight why someone else can't sit there. I've never had a problem with that 2nd issue, but it's my main concern when boarding; since I did pay for the seat, I certainly think I'm within my rights not to have someone sit there....I just prefer to not have to be assertive about it. It's a good policy; the whole standby thing probably threw his plan out-of-whack, and now that he felt embarassed he wants to make a big deal about it. As a big guy, I can understand that too. Being one of the last people on the plane at Southwest is never fun, because it's only middle seats, and if you're a COS, it's harder to fit in between two other people than in an aisle. Maybe that's why I'm willing to pay a few more $$ and avoid the problem. Even with the hassle of Open Seating, SWA's Customer of Size policy has been much better to deal with than just about any other airline I've flown.
Christy1
Explorer C
seems to me that your airlines idea of what constitutes FAT needs to be overhauled. He could CLEARLY get down both armrests COMFORTABLY. treating overweight americans as second class citizens is DISGUSTING and I will NEVER fly with your company again. PS, I am 110 dripping wet.
Read_Weaver
Explorer C
To the very first poster in this thread, who wrote "I love Southwest for protecting me from having to sit next to fat people squished into one seat": As Kate Harding has said, the fat person next to you is at least as uncomfortable as you are, and at least you don't have to sit next to a total *sshole.
Anonymous2751
Explorer C
mspinkie22-gmail — Mon, 02/15/2010 - 16:05 Thank you for being brave enough to tell your story. I don't know why Southwest can't apologize correctly. So let me be the first to say how sorry I am for your experience. No one should have treated you that way. Ever. And if I could, I would make it right for you. Hang tight.
red_sole
Explorer C
Well done Southwest! You don't even give me any rewards or any free drink coupons, just keep the fatsos off the plane!
Anonymous3941
Explorer C
Your policy is not clear. It states that you must fit into the seat with both arm rests down. It states that needling a seat belt extender does not necessarily qualify you as a person of size. Smith supposedly fit into the seat with both sides down and did not need the extender so why was he removed? The last time I flew SW, I was treated horribly (I am disabled) by the flight attendent. She was obnoxious to several passengers. No one dared call her on it since that can get you arrested today. I am a person of size....I too can fit in the seat with the sides down, but do need an extender. I am always afraid you are going to kick me off one day. What you did does not make me want to take any more chances of SW, not to mention that your flight attendents are rude.
Anonymous447
Explorer C
Kevin was able to fit in the seat with both armrests down. The people beside him said that they were fine sitting next to him. You were not justified in kicking him off. The fact that you refuse to give him a straight answer and make up such a sorry excuse for an apology is sickening Anyone defending Southwest should take their blinders off. Southwest Airlines was in the wrong.
Another_Anonymo
Explorer C
I was 1 click away from buying a ticket from SW last night. I got a phone call and decided to go out, and buy my ticket today. After hearing the story, from the horse's mouth via Smodcast (which you should hear before you comment), I decided to go United, which was not that much more money, if any. It may be a policy to make obese people buy an extra ticket. But if the policy is to measure obesity by whether or not a passenger's arm rests can go down, and Kevin Smith's can, but they didn't bother to ask if his arm rests could come down, it seems to me that the company made a mistake and just wouldn't back down from it. More believeable to me is the theory that someone on the staff was targeting him just to have a story to tell. When you hear the story, Smith tells about a woman seated next to him who was also harrased to buy an extra seat "next time". A woman who also fit in her seat, who was next to an empty seat already purchased by Smith. So that leads me to believe it's either a policy that they stretch to sell more seats, or there is a culture of discrimination by the staff (or both). Either way, it should be addressed in a major way, not by a $100 voucher, or by making up stories about having called someone when they didn't. And, if they didn't screw up why are they apologizing? They are talking out of both sides of their mouths by apologizing, and defending themselves at the same time. Which is it, and what is to be done about it? I have a feeling more stories will come out. Also, a side note, Kevin and Jen made good points about post-9/11 air travel. The airlines can pretty much do what they want to you, knowing that if you protest they can take you out in handcuffs. This is a deeper issue than just the surface level discrimination accusations.
Anonymous1271
Explorer C
I love SWA... everything about this airline ROCKS! Having been seated next to people who have to sit with the arm rest up ...and that would be my arm rest, thank you very much ~ I don't know what the answer is.. everyone tries to accomodate everyone else and just get along and get to our final destination. But people who exceed their seat and who smell should not be allowed to get on a plane and make everyone around them miserable. Southwest has an obligation to ensure that all passengers are happy. Don't worry SWA... you did the right thing... ( what you shouldn't have done is let him change his flight in the first place.. "sorry Mr Smith, no available seats on this flight..you'll have to stick with your original reservation"... )
Anonymous1271
Explorer C
I love SWA... everything about this airline ROCKS! Having been seated next to people who have to sit with the arm rest up ...and that would be my arm rest, thank you very much ~ I don't know what the answer is.. everyone tries to accomodate everyone else and just get along and get to our final destination. But people who exceed their seat and who smell should not be allowed to get on a plane and make everyone around them miserable. Southwest has an obligation to ensure that all passengers are happy. Don't worry SWA... you did the right thing... ( what you shouldn't have done is let him change his flight in the first place.. "sorry Mr Smith, no available seats on this flight..you'll have to stick with your original reservation"... )
Anonymous2413
Explorer C
It's actually really disgusting to read through some of these comments and see how 'obese'/'overweight' people are seen by society. This is the exact reason when I fly to my next destination I will now be using South West. The way the situation has been handled is complete bull shit and people need to calm the fuck dow.
Anonymous1077
Explorer C
Southwest - looks like you guys stepped in a big pile of PR Doo-Doo. Removing a big passenger from a flight even though he passed the "Seat belt & Arm Rest Test" is just plain wrong. From all the comments I have read on this blog, it looks like the majority of people think you were in the wrong; Myself included. Discrimination takes many forms. You as a company seem to enforce your "Customer of Size" policy when it suits your fancy. Too bad you picked on a guy with so many well know contacts and associates. Would you pull Oprah Winfrey off your plane if she could not get her arm rest down and didn't have an additional seat purchased? I think not, but the difference is that she is not a fat bearded caucasian guy. She would sue your company 'till your ass bled, and then rip you again on her show.
Anonymous2413
Explorer C
It's actually really disgusting to read through some of these comments and see how 'obese'/'overweight' people are seen by society. This is the exact reason when I fly to my next destination I will now be using South West. The way the situation has been handled is complete bull shit and people need to calm the fuck down.
Anonymous4264
Explorer C
So, what is the objective standard for weight? I'm 250 lbs, but over 6'2". I've never heard of an airline apologizing for not providing leg room, but that's another issue. I can lower the armrests (as could Kevin Smith), and I am as competant to act in an emergency as any other passenger. Oh, and I shower everyday, brush my teeth, use deoderant, wear clean clothes etc so I don't smell! I'll be sitting next to my petite wife on the flight anyway. I'm holding a ticket for an SWA flight in a couple of months. It has never occurred to me that I could be removed from a flight, and it has never ever been an issue as far as I knew. I sent an e-mail to SWA when the Kevin Smith story broke asking for their objective standard (e.g. height to weight ratio, waiste size, etc,), but so far no response. I had to provide the date and flight number, so now I'm thinking I'm a marked man for raising the issue. Okay, I promise I won't ever fly SWA again if they don't want me, but what is the risk I will be ejected from my upcoming flight? It seems to me that without an objective standard, SWA is setting itslelf up for a lawsuit. I'm not worried about discrimination (if I were disabled and fat, I would ask for a "reasonable accommodation"). If I miss a business meeting because I'm too fat, but my fatter (yet less qualified) competitor is allowed to on the same common carrier airline and gets a contract because I wasn't allowed to fly, aren't there some damages here?
John_S
Explorer C
I understand the critieria is that if the fat passenger in question cannot get both armrests down, then he must either purchase 2 seats or will be ejected from the plane. Mr Smith had BOTH armrests down when you rejected him, and then caught a later Southwest flight where everything was fine. Just admit that someone on the first plane had a little power and thus excercised it for fun, and happened to do it to the wrong guy. Then I will go back to flying on your cramped, smelly airplanes.
Anonymous2488
Explorer C
Kevin is not that big of a person. What SWA did was wrong and the "apology" is bull. I will never fly with SWA again.
Paul_B1
Explorer C
Blah Blah Blah. God, its like everyone here doesn't fly AT ALL. Before you post, go do some heavy flying for a few weeks around just the US. You know what you will find? ALL AIRLINES HAVE INCONSTANT POLICY'S! SWA is no exception, its just more polite PR. The captain must of had a hard on for Kevin and wanted him off the plane. This is the ONLY consistent policy all airlines have. The Captain has the final say on what/who goes on the plane. Maybe Kevin said something that annoyed him, maybe the Captain was pissed of he was fat, heck, maybe he saw one of his movies and waned a "Refund" I am not arguing this is necessarily a bad policy as he IS responsible for the plane, its just annoying how he made this his "justification" Now Southwest is playing 52 card pickup from Kevin's deck. (I really hate calling somone I don't personaly know by his first name, but Mr. Smith seems kind of matrixy) I have seen kids ejected from the plane just on the off chance they will scream and even some disabled people not allowed because of "safety" concerns. Hell, months after 9/11 I have seen women not allowed on planes because of wearing a hijab. No news story, they just get another ticket and get on the next one. People want cheap fares so you get what you pay for. Inconsistent policy's, small seats, a reactionary PR and no more peanuts. PS - I have personalty went to the headquarters many times and flew on several flights. SWA is by far the best of the bunch, but I am not going to say issues don't happen with them.
Anonymous629
Explorer C
Liars. I guess I know what airline I WON'T be using!
Anonymous3982
Explorer C
This is an example of undertrained employees being over-zealous. They probably waited untill he was on the plane because they know you can argue on a plane or you will be dragged out and arrested. They treat regular people like this all the time. Well, this time they did it to the wrong person and I'm glad Kevin Smith spoke out about it. SWA handled this very poorly. This blog post completely blames Smith and doesn't address the fact that he fit in the seat. It doesn't address how they treated the other large person that Smith witnessed. The title of this might be funny if it was from anyone by SW saying it, but as the title to your "apology" it is rude and makes you look even worse. Southwest should AT LEAST apologize the the woman that they emberrassed on the second flight, why did they do that when she was sitting next to an empty seat? They should also say that they will focus on training their employees, re-evaluate their policies and the uncomfortably small seats (even for me and I'm skinny). Untill that happens I will fly other airlines.
NotHeavyBut___
Explorer C
Shame on Southwest. Excuse the pun, but you should lighten up on heavier people. Seriously, when it's necessary, sure, have the heavier people on the plane exit per your guidelines ... until you can install seats that make more sense for the public at large ... pun intended ... but do yourselves a favor, and train your employees to handle such situations with more dignity and respect. Also, there have certainly been times when it is NOT necessary to eject a heavy person from your plane, despite your policy, so ease up and try to treat your customers better. Other airlines with the same basic policy don't have the same kind of problems that you keep having with the public. You can take some lessons from them. The good news is that you can make the bad decision that you made regarding Kevin Smith a good thing if you actually care about your customers. Please don't take the easy way out by spinning this with your public relations department. Just do the right thing and make your policy work more humanely.
uacsux
Explorer C
As an industry leader please consider charging customers by the pound. I will fly Southwest everytime if you do!
Ashley_Hopkins
Explorer C
I understand both safety and the importance of being comfortable, but Smith was SEATED, BUCKLED and had his armrests DOWN. Do you really expect anyone to believe that this was a safety issue? Not to mention...HE'S NOT THAT BIG! I've sat next to much bigger on many flights, very comfortably I might add. I think you've lost a lot of customers over your elitist policy. All I can say is that if I was sitting next to Kevin Smith and you made him leave the plane, I'd be standing up and leaving right a long side him. Southwestern is not only prejudiced, it's a company built on humiliating it's customers. I beg everyone to find a decent airline to fly with. Hey, United loses my bags every time I fly with them, but I'll definitely be flying with them before I ever buy another Southwestern ticket.
I_no_heart_SWA
Explorer C
great non-apology there, Southwest. You should train your employees better. Also, you shouldn't allow them to show that Airline series. You might think it makes for great publicity, but in all honesty it makes your employees look petty, ridiculous and powerhungry about 85% of the time.
I_no_heart_SWA
Explorer C
great non-apology there, Southwest. You should train your employees better. Also, you shouldn't allow them to show that Airline series. You might think it makes for great publicity, but in all honesty it makes your employees look petty, ridiculous and powerhungry about 85% of the time.
Anonymous1754
Explorer C
Yeah, people will still fly Southwest because most of the folks who fly them do so to get the cheapest flight. People can post all day about "principles" and "the airline was so mean yada yada", and at the end of the day they'll choose saving money over anything else. It's easy to yammer about better flying conditions and comfortable seats, but the airlines that try those things tend to price themselves out of the market, and have to either go back to packing as many seats on a plane as possible, or go out of business. If you really think that SWA was so wrong, go ahead and pay an extra $50 each way to fly on American or USAir - I bet most of you loudmouths won't. As for me, I'll use the savings to buy up the seat next to mine and have some extra space for my wide shoulders...since you're all people of principle over money, you won't be occupying that seat anyways.
Anonymous4636
Explorer C
It's nice to see that bigotry in this country is still alive and well. For those of you chiming in with your HORRIBLE comments regarding people with weight issues, I hope to GOD you never get fat. And, if you ever do, I hope I'm there to see your tears.
Teresa_Comerfor
Explorer C
While I agree that obese people, who cannot contain themselves to one seat, should pay for another, it seems that Mr. Smith was not of this category. He was able to sit comfortably in his seat, buckle his belt, and lower his arm rests without issue. Ignoring the relevant facts, SWA decided to eject Mr. Smith. Since SWA has a catch-all clause that allows them to pick and choose when to administer their regulations, it would have been more prudent for SWA to prevent Mr. Smith from boarding that flight in the first place. Furthermore, they should have disclosed to Mr. Smith that he would need to purchase two seats for the Stand-by should he wish to change his flight times. That would have allowed Mr. Smith to make a better judgement and use of his time and money. I find it dubious that Mr. Smith was too fat to fly on this particular day. As you stated, he has flown with SWA many times and has "been known" to purchase two tickets. So, I wonder if Mr. Smith has always purchased two tickets and is this the first "single seat" incident? If not, then has Mr. Smith ever flown on SWA whilst paying for and riding in just one seat? If so, then why was he not ejected then - why now? Mr. Smith has always maintained a thick stature, so stating he was fit enough then would just be a lie. Generally, I do not disagree with your Customers of Size Policy. However, I disagree completely with the way you pick and choose how to enforce it. I disagree completely with the handling of this situation and the arrogance of your tone. Furthermore, I find it appalling that SWA stalked Mr. Smith's websites for bad reviews in order to thwart bad publicity. If Mr. Smith was a "regular Joe", then SWA wouldn't have called him at home or profusely apologized. SWA would have carried on like any other airline. They would have kept the money regardless of customer satisfaction, regardless of delivering the item as advertised, and regardless of quality of service. I have flown with you and will never do so again. This not because of Mr. Smith's incident, but his experience does reinforce my perspective. Rather, I will not fly with you because of your poor customer service and you inability to host direct , non-stop flights. Thank you, Teresa Comerford
Anonymous3616
Explorer C
I have personally been seated next to someone who was very large. I was completely uncomfortable. The person didn't even care that their arm was on top of my shoulder through the 4 hour flight. I shouldn't have to suffer because someone else is too big for one seat.
Anonymous3767
Explorer C
Say what you will about the sincerity, but there is something to be said about the freedom in the comments section: especially the freedom to be judgmental about this apology. Was SouthWest wrong, maybe, was Smith, maybe. I can't be the one to judge that, but I do think that it is rather telling that SW has open comments even though they criticize.
Anonymous1775
Explorer C
Kudos for kicking anyone off that takes up more that the space he paid for. BS that you appologized for it. How about sticking up for the rights of people that take up one seat worth of space. I have sat in your seats mayy times and had someone elses body in my space and you do nothing and that includes appologizing to me. I don't like others to be touching me but do you care, I don't think so. I would love to sit next to the president of even the lowly vice president and have my leg or upper body taking 1/4 of the their seat for 2 hours or more. Don't tell me that the seats are cheap and I get to meet exciting people. Cute real cute. I bet I have more miles on your airline that Kevin Smith has but I'm not as famous as him so I guess I don't count. When it happens again to me, I'll just get on line and slam Southwest every day, is that what you want?