Skip to main content

Southwest Airlines Community

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

spacecoastbill
Frequent Flyer B

@navjag03 wrote:

"Occupied seats but they haven't boarded yet?".  Open Seating: Definition?   Seriously, this needs clarification?      As another person posted , and as two SW Captains that I know very well,   just told me a few minutes ago, "open seating" means 'nobody is sitting there at that moment. If the seat doesn't have a human being in it, it is open. Period.`'   Of course, it is the FAs that have to do with dense remarks like the one you gave, not the Captains.  However, like others, I have no issue with saving a seat for a family member or two. Just don't do it the emergency row section where there is more leg room. Those purchasing Business Select should have that benefit.  


Exactly my experience with this.  Person boarded ahead of us (We were in the A 1-15 group) and got onboard with the person ahead of us in a window seat.  He put an item in the other 2 seats.  I asked him if there was anyone physically sitting there or not.  He said his fried was in the bathroom (impossible as I was there when he boarded and the lav was also unoccupied).


i told him to please remove his property so myself and the Mrs could sit in the open seats.  he got verbal, he got loud, and the FA told him the seats were open and we were allowed to sit there.

He got up and went back several rows.

Late in the C group comes his friend and I overheard him ask him why he didnt save a seat for him in a row closer to the front.  His mouth nearly got him tossed off the flight.

 

Capt came over to me and asked what the commotion was about, I explained it to him and he went back to the flight deck.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

bwallet
Frequent Flyer A

@spacecoastbill You get on in A1-15, and you choose to sit in a row with someone when there is basically a whole empty plane? Um... Why? Oh, and for the record, if someone is saving a seat, they will invariably sit in the aisle seat. Sorry, but I call BS on this one.

 

@swavegastravel I will use small words so that you understand. Very, very, very, very few people are unable to walk a short distance. With very, very, very, very few exceptions, people with a wheelchair get out of the chair at the airplane door and walk to their seat. Then, when the plane lands, they walk off the plane where there is a wheelchair waiting for them. Just because you see them walk off the plane doesn't mean that a miracle occurred. It means that they did what 99.9% of people in wheelchairs do at airports.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

spacecoastbill
Frequent Flyer B

@bwallet wrote:

@spacecoastbill You get on in A1-15, and you choose to sit in a row with someone when there is basically a whole empty plane? Um... Why? Oh, and for the record, if someone is saving a seat, they will invariably sit in the aisle seat. Sorry, but I call BS on this one.

 

@swavegastravel I will use small words so that you understand. Very, very, very, very few people are unable to walk a short distance. With very, very, very, very few exceptions, people with a wheelchair get out of the chair at the airplane door and walk to their seat. Then, when the plane lands, they walk off the plane where there is a wheelchair waiting for them. Just because you see them walk off the plane doesn't mean that a miracle occurred. It means that they did what 99.9% of people in wheelchairs do at airports.


Because Mr. Judgemental you forget to think about the tons of preboards and those already onboard who move seats during the wait for new passengers.

 

Also, we typically prefer the front of the aircraft, and I have a need to be close to the lav.

 

So no, no BS here, other than your own comment.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

navjag03
Explorer C

I agree with the posting by Spacecoastbill:  On my flight a couple of days ago, a tall passenger was about to sit in an open emerg row seat (I was close behind him). The passenger sitting there said the two seats were saved. The other side emerg seats were already taken.  Long story short, the FA DID intervene and told the sitting passenger that it IS OPEN seating and that he couldn't stop this other passenger from sitting there.  Of course, the sitting passenger got loud and complained. In no uncertain terms, the FA (who I knew and has the demeanor of a Marine Corp Drill Instructor) warned the passenger he could be kicked off the aircraft for noncompliance (following the verbal directives of the FA).    He, too, got up and moved, grumbling.       Myself, if I don't get the emerg row, I got to the back of the aircraft and get an isle seat.  Then, for my entertainment,  I watch as some passengers try to put oversized luggage in the overheads,..and watch the FAs roll their eyes. 

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

swavegastravel
Explorer C

I am a once a week to twice a week traveler and unfortunately I live in Henderson just outside of Las Vegas.  I’ll ignore the bad tourists (who are not the majority) that make my return flights miserable.  But what I am getting more and more frustrated with is the abuse of preboarding.  I KNOW there are people that legitimately need it, but I also can statistically state that 80% abuse it.  

Unless Jesus is healing the amount of people that NEED a wheelchair to get on and NEED to get on first and then magically don’t need one to get off the plane or get around the Main boulevard  then they are behaving disgustingly.  It is an insult to those that need this help for the mass that abuses it.  

I am sitting in Chicago Midway right now waiting for my return flight and there are 19 wheelchairs and another 11 people in their entourage.  One lady….just got out of her wheelchair to give it to someone getting off the plane and is now walking around normal pulling her carryon.  Yet she still NEEDS to preboard.  
Again I know there are people who need it but the abuse of this is ridiculous.  Why can’t SW restrict how many PBs it allows per flight?   Other people restrict first class, restrict FF redemption, SW only allows A1-15, not A1-20, 25, etc.  

 

it slows down flight schedules over and over with unlimited amount of preboarding.  

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

CupCrusher40
Frequent Flyer B

5 dollars for a window seat with  an on website plane map would help.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

benfranklinusa
Explorer C

 I agree it is out of control. I usually see at least 2 and sometimes 3-4 family members board with  the "disabled" individual during pre-boarding. So, here's my solution to solve all the pre-boarding problems. All disabled and family members who pre-board with them must pay the full upgrade price to Business Select just like all other non-disabled persons who want to get in the "A" boarding group. If southwest airlines implements this solution, nobody will have a right to complain about pre-boarding ever again, because all the pre-boarders pay the exact same price for their tickets regardless of their status.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

dfwskier
Aviator A

Please read the numerous posts up thread that explain that federal law prevents SW from doing such a thing.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

benfranklinusa
Explorer C

Respectfully disagree...the law says SW can't discriminate against the disabled and must give acccommodation. It doesn't say SW can't charge disabled the same price as the abled. Therefore, if SW charged the "Business Select" price to be able to get pre-boarding the same as those in the "A" group, there is no discrimination and no violation of the law. It just takes one airline with some guts and a willingness to fight it out in court to make the difference. When family members have to pay the higher price, a lot of cheating will be stopped.

Re: Pre-boarding remains out of control

rmartin
Explorer C

You can disagree all you want.  The other poster is correct.  First, airlines cannot require someone to identify themselves as having a disability in advance of the flight

§ 382.25 - May a carrier require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice that he or she is traveling on a flight?

As a carrier, you must not require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice of the fact that he or she is traveling on a flight.

 

Then:

§ 382.11(a)(4)You must not take any adverse action against an individual...

I'm not a lawyer but forcing people with disabilities to pay more so that they can preboard seems like an adverse action to me. For example, you show up, identify yourself as having a qualifying disability and need to preboard.  If they airline then says "oh, you'll need to pay more to in order for us to comply with this rule", that would definitely seem like the airline is taking an adverse action.

 

Then there's this section that says you cannot impose special charges in case the previous part wasn't clear enough.

§ 382.31 - May carriers impose special charges on passengers with a disability for providing services and accommodations required by this rule?

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this part you must not, as a carrier, impose charges for providing facilities, equipment, or services that this rule requires to be provided to passengers with a disability. You may charge for services that this part does not require.

 

And there's also

§ 382.83(c) If you do not provide advance seat assignments to passengers, you must allow passengers specified in § 382.81 to board the aircraft before other passengers, including other “preboarded” passengers, so that the passengers needing seating accommodations can select seats that best meet their needs.

 So, as much as you'd like for the airline to discriminate and violate this rule, I feel confident in saying that WN isn't going to do that.