Preboarding Scammers

[asz777]

@NicoleAshley i have emailed several times-inconsistent boarding procedures (ie people with far more than 2 carry ons), flight attendants allowing people to save seats, etc.   with nothing but a canned, automated, BS response.  If someone needs assistance boarding or requests a preboard, doesn’t it make sense them wait until the flight is completely deplaned and then can get off last.  I’m sure a lot of people will re-evaluate as to whether or not they REALLY need to preboard.   I understand you need to accommodate those that need assistance, but you also have an obligation to the remaining passengers (many of us loyal A List members AND SW credit card holders) who paid for our tickets and upgrades. Look at the number of comments on this topic in your own community site-looks like a lot of people notice this procedure needs to be adjusted 

[floridaguy]

The law is clear.  

Seat Assignment Criteria

Under the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA), airlines are required to provide certain seating accommodations to passengers with disabilities who self-identify as needing to sit in a cert...

• Movable Aisle Armrest: If you use an aisle chair to access the aircraft, and cannot transfer readily over a fixed aisle armrest.
• Bulkhead Seat or Other Seat: If you are traveling with a service animal, that is best accommodated at a particular seat.
• Greater Leg Room: If you have a fused or immobilized leg and need a seat that better accommodates your disability, including an aisle seat or a bulkhead seat.
• An Adjoining Seat: If you are traveling with a person who is assisting you during the flight such as:
  • A personal care attendant who performs a function that is not required to be performed by airline personnel, for example assisting you with eating;
  • A reader if you are blind or visually impaired;
  • An interpreter if you are deaf or hard of hearing; or
  • A safety assistant, for example if you cannot assist with your own evacuation.

    Note: If the conditions above do not apply to your situation, the airline is still required to provide you with a seat assignment that best accommodates your disability. This may include one of the seating accommodations listed under “Seat Assignment Criteria” above. However, if you do not meet the airline’s seating assignment criteria (ex. you did not check-in on time), the airline must only provide the seating accommodation to the extent practicable.

    More specifically:

    Do all airlines provide advance seat assignments?

    • No. Some airlines do not provide advance seat assignments. 
    • If your airline does not provide an advance seat assignment, you can request to board the aircraft before other passengers if you need additional time or assistance to board, stow accessibility equipment, or select a seat that best meets your needs.

      This subject has been discussed at length.  As long as the Federal Law is in place and Southwest has open seating, you will continue to have the "perfect storm" of those with a self-declared disability will be first to board the plane.

      Other airlines do the same thing, but they pre-board to their assigned seat rather than any open seat.

[dfwskier]

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@asz777 wrote:

@ If someone needs assistance boarding or requests a preboard, doesn’t it make sense them wait until the flight is completely deplaned and then can get off last.   

Assuming that people that pre board are considered handicapped, I believe it is against the law to treat handicapped people differently than non handicapped people. It's called discrimination. Thus what you suggest would be against the law.

Then there is the matter of handicapped people potentially missing connecting flights because they would be required to get off last (including those seated in the front of the plane specifically to get   off early in order to get to connecting flights).

[floridaguy]

I'm hearing that little song again....

[John1158]

So 16 wheelchairs then 5 others with mystery conditions can wait until A16 after those who have paid and flown more?  What is really amazing is those who need no assistance at the destination. Why should some pay more for their ticket only to be pushed down the list while those in group c buy the cheap seats and board first. And btw I have several disabilities myself. 

[HauseofMouse]

FYI, Preboarders are not allowed to sit in the emergency exit row.  HOWEVER, Preboarders may have a significant need to sit in the bulkhead seats and the ACAA  specifically states that they cannot force the disabled to sit or not sit in particular seats unless it affects the safety (i.e.  they cannot perform the tasks necessary for sitting in the emergency exit row.)  So trying to force the disabled to not sit in the first rows is not going to happen.  

[davesacenet]

So, if a preboarder has a "significant need" to sit in a bulkhead seat on a traditional airline, do they simply select the first available first, business class or economy comfort seat they see? Of course not, as those seats have already been purchased by another. So just because Southwest has "open seating" why can't they simply identify the first-row seat as "Business Select" reserved for those who have paid the fare?
I have no problems whatsoever with preboarders be they physically or mentally disabled, military, old or young, claustrophopic or apt to vomit in other than a window seat. I do, however have a real issue paying over $800 for business class select, holding A1 and A2 and having to walk past the first several rows filled with folks who could just as easily sit in other seats (as they would have in most any other airline).

[SWDigits]

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@davesacenet wrote:

I do, however have a real issue paying over $800 for business class select, holding A1 and A2 and having to walk past the first several rows filled with folks who could just as easily sit in other seats (as they would have in most any other airline).

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I am drawn by discussions of the boarding/seating process and, as another customer, it's really interesting to see the dynamics of Southwest positioning of things versus the ensuing customer reactions.

All I'm doing here is simply listing how Southwest positions two items:

Boarding (click here for the direct source)

"Customers board the plane based on boarding group (A, B, or C) and number (1-60). Boarding positions are assigned when you check in and will be displayed on your boarding pass."

"General boarding starts with Business Select customers, who are guaranteed positions at the front of the A Group, followed by Rapid Rewards tier Members and the remaining Customers in the A Group, children age six and under and a guardian, then groups B and C. Learn more about our boarding process."

"We have an open seating policy, so feel free to sit in any available seat when you get onboard."

Business Select (click here for the direct source)

"Purchasing this fare will enable you to receive priority boarding in the A1-A15 group" (this is the first of many bullet points listed on the page).

[DancingDavidE]

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@davesacenet wrote:

So, if a preboarder has a "significant need" to sit in a bulkhead seat on a traditional airline, do they simply select the first available first, business class or economy comfort seat they see? Of course not, as those seats have already been purchased by another. So just because Southwest has "open seating" why can't they simply identify the first-row seat as "Business Select" reserved for those who have paid the fare?
I have no problems whatsoever with preboarders be they physically or mentally disabled, military, old or young, claustrophopic or apt to vomit in other than a window seat. I do, however have a real issue paying over $800 for business class select, holding A1 and A2 and having to walk past the first several rows filled with folks who could just as easily sit in other seats (as they would have in most any other airline).

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Although practical, the wording in the terms from the FAA that I'll paraphrase is that if the seats are not assigned, then they can't be "partially" assigned.

Obviously moving to a fully assgined cabin would be one solution, which Southwest has been avoiding. 

[davesacenet]

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Although practical, the wording in the terms from the FAA that I'll paraphrase is that if the seats are not assigned, then they can't be "partially" assigned.

Obviously moving to a fully assgined cabin would be one solution, which Southwest has been avoiding. 

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There's the solution! 

Why not allow only the very few "Business Select" customers who have essentuially (in many circumstances) paid double (or more) the fare for a free drink coupon and an earlier boarding postion to pre-select their seat at the time of purchase.  I realize it would be one more thing for the cabin crew to deal with, but they could easily place a "reserved for_____" sign on those very few seats prior to boarding.  

Problem solved!