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Re: MAX flight assignments

denno
Active Member

Dfwskier, you're guessing.  But Gary Kelly said on Jan 28: "The Company has scheduled the MAX return to revenue service on March 11, 2021, after the Company is expected to have met all FAA requirements and all active Pilots are expected to have received updated, MAX-related training.

Re: MAX flight assignments

dfwskier
Top Contributor

@denno wrote:

Dfwskier, you're guessing. 

 

Nope. I am not.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-says-all-737-max-pilots-will-need-flig...

 

From that article:

 

"The prospect of extensive simulator training now adds another big logistical hurdle before the MAX can resume commercial flights. There are only 34 full-motion MAX simulators in the world, eight of them in the U.S., and tens of thousands of pilots who will need time on one. 

 

Re: MAX flight assignments

denno
Active Member

Dfwskier, The Seattle Times article is a generalization of all airlines and their training.  This from Gary Kelly says WN has NINE MAX simulators:

 

"Before we return the aircraft to customer service, however, every active Southwest Pilot will complete additional FAA-required flight training in one of our nine 737 MAX simulators and will complete additional FAA-required computer-based training covering MAX procedures. Southwest will also require active Pilots to re-take our original 737 MAX 8 computer-based differences training as a refresher to complement the FAA-required training. Additionally, Southwest will conduct multiple readiness flights on each of our 34 MAX aircraft and complete thousands of hours of work, inspections, and the software updates before any of our Customers board a Southwest 737 MAX."

 

That tells me that whatever training quandary other carriers are in, Southwest will be totally up to speed by March 11.

 

Re: MAX flight assignments

chgoflyer
Top Contributor

Southwest has always required that every pilot is currently trained to fly every plane in the fleet. This is one reason they're so big on the 737 (and, ironically, one reason they're partially to blame for the MAX fiasco, since they pushed Boeing to limit the amount of training needed for the MAX, including demanding there be no simulator training required at all).

 

Southwest will complete full re-training of all pilots prior to their first scheduled MAX flight. This includes simulator training.

 

From Gary Kelly:

 

Before we return the aircraft to customer service, however, every active Southwest Pilot will complete additional FAA-required flight training in one of our nine 737 MAX simulators and will complete additional FAA-required computer-based training covering MAX procedures.

Re: MAX flight assignments

dfwskier
Top Contributor

FAA also requires every MAX pilot to show proficiency. That means  minimum of three take offs and three landings in the aircraft 

 

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

 

So let's see. SW has about 9300 pilots, so that means those pilots will have to complete a minimum 28,000 takeoffs and 28,000 landings before the entire pilot pool is qualified. I presume that touch and gos don't count.

 

As a point of reference SW completed about 40,000 MAX flights in the entire time the aircraft was in service pre grounding.

Re: MAX flight assignments

denno
Active Member

Dfwskier, so what are you saying about Kelly's statements relative to the March 11 MAX restart?

Re: MAX flight assignments

chgoflyer
Top Contributor

@dfwskier wrote:

FAA also requires every MAX pilot to show proficiency. That means  minimum of three take offs and three landings in the aircraft 

 

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

 

So let's see. SW has about 9300 pilots, so that means those pilots will have to complete a minimum 28,000 takeoffs and 28,000 landings before the entire pilot pool is qualified. I presume that touch and gos don't count.

 

As a point of reference SW completed about 40,000 MAX flights in the entire time the aircraft was in service pre grounding.


 

Do you have a reference for this? Your link doesn't help, and I've seen nothing of the sort mentioned on any of the pilot forums.

 

I'm not sure I follow your point. I mean, are you trying to say that Gary Kelly is lying?

Re: MAX flight assignments

dfwskier
Top Contributor

@chgoflyer wrote:
 

I'm not sure I follow your point. I mean, are you trying to say that Gary Kelly is lying?

 

I'm not playing that game.

 

 As a reference, both  Kelly and the pilots union said they had "complete confidence." in the MAX --- just before the second crash. Kelly doesn't always get it right.



 

Do you have a reference for this? Your link doesn't help, and I've seen nothing of the sort mentioned

 

Part 121 Section N


 

Re: MAX flight assignments

chgoflyer
Top Contributor

@dfwskier wrote:

@chgoflyer wrote:
 

I'm not sure I follow your point. I mean, are you trying to say that Gary Kelly is lying?

 

I'm not playing that game.

 

 As a reference, both  Kelly and the pilots union said they had "complete confidence." in the MAX --- just before the second crash. Kelly doesn't always get it right.



 

Do you have a reference for this? Your link doesn't help, and I've seen nothing of the sort mentioned

 

Part 121 Section N


 


 

I'm not playing a game, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. 😉

 

I'm still not understanding your reference. "Part 121 Section N" of what, exactly?

 

If you're saying that completing full pilot training by March 11 is optimistic, sure -- that I can agree with. Is that your point? That they won't get it done and will push back the MAX schedule?

 

Or that only a few pilots will be trained by then? Because that's very, very unlikely.

 

You previously seemed to be asserting that the slow MAX launch was due to pilot training issues. I suggest that the ramp up is more due to limited demand.

 

If the schedule gets pushed back, sure. If on March 11 the MAX is flying and only a limited number of pilots have been trained, nah. I don't see that happening.

 

 

Re: MAX flight assignments

dfwskier
Top Contributor

Cliff's notes version for chgoflyer

 

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2019/05/eight-currency-requirements-you-should-check-before-yo...

 

That would explain all the flights to nowhere that have been happening since March.