Mr. Martin, I hope that time, distance and more information becoming available to the public in the coming weeks will give you more perspective about what happened with this incident. Southwest does not "disregard passenger safety", ever. I wish you the best of luck flying on other airlines, but I can assure you that similar and perhaps even more serious problems exist at other airlines. I wonder if the FAA intends to give all the airlines' maintenance records the "Southwest treatment"? Seems unfair that only one airline is being given this sort of unprecedented scrutiny...
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LltoFL, I don't think you know much about airplanes. Planes are over-engineered so that a single minor human error doesn't bring down a flight. If you look at many of the major crashes of recent history, the crash wasn't usually due to a single mistake. There was usually a cascade of mistakes that culminated in the plane going down. If planes weren't built this way you'd have planes falling out of the sky on a weekly or even daily basis.
In addition, airlines have overlapping inspection programs so that, in SW's case, the "missed" FAA mandated inspection wasn't really "missed" at all. It was "missed" in terms of the paperwork, but other, overlapping Southwest maintenance programs ensured that this area of the plane had eyes, ears and tools all over it. The way it is reported makes it sound like these planes were just flyin' around all over the place with no one checking them out - totally not true. And sorry, planes have cracks in them all the time, it is routine, that's why they have programs in place to deal with the problem. It's simply routine wear and tear on the airplane like wear on your auto brakes and tires.
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AnotherView, thanks! I knew he had to be a longtime member of the committee. You don't become Chairman from the outside. I do think this is a politically motivated action and that the non-action against Northwest in 2005 was a result of "coziness" between a politician and hometown contributor. At least the Northwest issues were (very) briefly mentioned in today's DMN.
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Speaking of Oberstar, I don't know if he was on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee back in 2005, but there was a "whistleblower" complaint against Northwest Airlines regarding far, far more serious issues than what happened at Southwest. I don't remember Northwest being dragged through the mud and called before Congress. Oberstar didn't become Chairman of the Committee until 2007, but one has to wonder if "hometown influence" didn't keep Northwest out of the news back in '05.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_06/b4070000689813.htm?chan=rss_topDiscussed_ssi_5
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Keith and others who think Southwest "deliberately" skimped on inspections: if that is the case WHY would Southwest self-disclose this issue? They did that a YEAR ago! Why would you self-disclose if you were deliberately skipping inspections? Disclosure is going to mean scrutiny, just look at what is going on now! It makes no sense. If Southwest really put profit before safety they would have kept their mouths shut in March 2007 and the FAA never would have been the wiser. And by the way, the FAA NEVER knew about ANY of these cracking issues until Southwest brought them to the FAA's attention years ago - well before the 2004 AD that is at issue right now.
Southwest has been ahead of the FAA and probably the other airlines in terms of safety. If not for Southwest, no one would know that the 747s have this problem. And I *know* that and hopefully when all the investigations are over, the rest of you will *know* that in an official capacity. This is included in Gregory Feith's statement linked above. The perception seems to be that these planes just flew and flew and flew and were never inspected. All planes are inspected on a regular basis and the areas at issue were inspected regularly. There was never a safety issue; there was a paperwork issue.
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Posted this in the other thread, thought it was worth repeating here. Of course, the first comment was that Feith was obviously paid to lie by Southwest. Yes he was paid, but as a respected, well-known aviation professional. I doubt he'd sell out his entire reputation and career for a consultant's fee. Regarding the cracks, the information I've been given says that cracks have to be in several parts of the aircraft in order to cause a structural failure. Even an 8-inch crack in one section isn't enough to cause failure.
Southwest is stuck because flying is an emotionally charged "fear" issue for most people. Therefore, logic and facts seem to play no role. It's like trying to convince people that sharks aren't man-eating death machines.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080307/laf070.html?.v=28
I strongly urge everyone to read this statement by former NTSB Investigator Gregory Feith. Some points that jumped out at me:
***Ã
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Right, so now Gregory Feith is selling his reputation for a lousy consultant's fee. Get real. You want to believe what you want to believe.
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http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080307/laf070.html?.v=28
I strongly urge everyone to read this statement by former NTSB Investigator Gregory Feith. Some points that jumped out at me:
***"This Service Bulletin was based, in large part, on an inspection program developed by Southwest Airlines. The issuance of the AD was a continued effort to ensure that cracks in the fuselage skin on the Boeing 737 airplanes were identified and mitigated well before they could pose a safety of flight issue. "
So apparently it was Southwest Airlines that originally brought the issue of fuselage cracks to the attention of the FAA and that it was discovered during their own maintenance programs. If not for Southwest the FAA would not have known cracking was an issue and the AD would not have been issued. Again, Southwest was ahead of the FAA in the matter of safety.
***"In addition, it is evident from the analysis and testing data developed by Boeing that cracks up to 6 inches in the fuselage skin do not compromise the structural integrity or pose a safety of flight issue. This is further supported by the design of the fuselage structure which incorporates "internal reinforcing doublers in the skin assembly" and "tearstraps," both of which are intended to provide strength, and slow or abate the growth rate of a crack under normal operating aerodynamic loads."
I don't think any of the planes Southwest has reinspected have had cracks anywhere near this large but I admit to not having full information on that, feel free to correct me.
I don't know if this will make anyone feel any better, but I'm kind of ticked that this statement has gotten no play in the media as far as I've heard. The statement was issued March 7 but I only found it by randomly checking other aviation related blogs.
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"Again, I give credit to the many dedicated, intelligent, customer-dedicated and safety minded employees of Southwest. I know they will do the right thing."
That's all I'm asking, really, is that the people involved be given the benefit of the doubt rather than have their integrity and ethics denigrated by people who don't know what they are talking about. Obviously mistakes have been made but they are being corrected and I firmly believe that safety was never, ever compromised. The people involved are working really hard and are heartsick over this.
Southwest has a long standing history of of corporate responsibility so it just frustrates me to see some people hysterically conclude that suddenly they are all "bad" and deserve to go under. These are peoples lives and careers at stake; families with children! I just think that Southwest's reputation justifies giving them the benefit of the doubt until all of this shakes out.
And for the record, the latest "lead" for the evening news locally (DFW area) was how "something out there is putting your and your family at risk every time you get in your car." Turns out it's poor road conditions - run for your life, right? I stand by my assertion that the media overplays the fear angle because it's a guaranteed ratings grabber.
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I'm snippy because I hate seeing a good company trying to do the right thing getting summarily thrown under the bus by people who are already fearful flyers. My parents won't fly either but I promise you they are in far more danger driving on the roads of this nation than they would ever be in one of Southwest's planes. Remember, a 37-year spotless record.
Ed, no a plane is not a car, by the analogy is similar. As the other poster stated, a paperwork error does not a safety issue make. If you are not involved in aviation you have no knowledge of what all this really means, only the media spin, "you are all going to die". You have no idea the mountain of paperwork aviation folk are forced to deal with, but that doesn't mean the planes were never inspected or that they were ever unsafe. Layers of inspection that overlap, believe me. Layer upon layer upon layer...
I trust Southwest. They put their people and their families on these planes every day. Do they make mistakes, yeah, apparently. Do they deliberately sacrifice safety in the name of corporate profit? NEVER.
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Katie, I take my precious self, my precious son and my precious husband on Southwest flights ALL THE TIME AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
Airlines have multiple layers of safety inspections that overlap so missing a mandated inspection doesn't mean that NO inspection was ever done, just that the one *mandated* by the FAA wasn't done and there's a consequence for that, a fine. But that doesn't mean that the airline doesn't have it's own, separate inspection program that covers the same territory. Again, it's like saying that because your car inspection sticker expired then automatically your brakes are bad, your tires are bald and your car is an inherent safety threat to everyone else on the road. Not true, though you do face a fine and penalty for not getting the inspection as required. But it doesn't mean your car is unsafe.
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Cheryl Clemmons: I love your threats to sue. Everyone complains that corporations never do the right thing and when a corporation DOES do the right thing (disclose a mistake and take responsibility) then the media and the public are ready to jump all over them, string them up and run them out of business with lawsuits. Do you think that will make other airlines voluntarily disclose their mistakes? And believe me, they are making mistakes. Hopefully, they are as honest and resonsible as Southwest when it comes to disclosing and fixing their errors. Did you read the Dallas Morning News "story" Sunday on American Airline's "aging fleet". So who you gonna fly? Maybe people like you should just walk. If you put all the airlines out of business that's exactly where you are going to be: driving.
This situation is similar to saying that the day after your car inspection sticker expired your car became a screaming metal deathtrap and you became a selfish, greedy beast because you continued to drive it knowing it was "out of compliance". These "greedy people" you talk about are human beings, fallible and imperfect. They do their best under circumstances you will never fully grasp. They have parents, wives, children and friends who love and trust them and don't like seeing them slandered by people who don't know them and don't know the situation. Those employees are working themselves sick even as we type.
If only we could all be as perfect as you, Ms. Gannon. Get in your crappy car and drive yourself to your destination and see how "safe" you are on the nation's highways!
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03-08-2008
12:24 AM
2 Loves
Just because something is printed in a newspaper does not make it true. An airline that cuts corners on safety in order to profit does not maintain a spotless safety record for 37 years. It just doesn't happen! Furthermore, plenty of Southwest employees fly on these planes, many of them "commute" to their jobs via a Soutwest flight. Do you really think they would skimp on safety when they and their families are flying on this airline, often several times per week? I hope Soutwest vigorously defends itself against these allegations and not let the media do the usual bit: slandering someone while the story is hot and then when it all turns out to be a big nothing you never hear about it. The media has just moved on to the next big "story". I KNOW Southwest has never skimped on safety.
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