Not Gary Kelly! https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/why-southwest-airlines-ceo-flies-coach.html I understand your issues with the system though. And although personally I've been supportive on this community that I generally have no problem with people saving seats for a spouse or child, it's just greedy for one person to save six seats and I probably would consider just sitting down - you have your three spots over there, we're taking these three over here. Co-workers - nope, catch up when we land. That's impressive that the CEO would fly coach, but I'm quite sure he didn't have his family with young children with him and have the last "together" seats saved so he coudn't sit down winding up in *his* family sitting in different parts of the plane. I'd enjoy seeing that picture. If he was smart, he would monitor these forums and find out what real customes experiences are like and see what is happening on his airline. Not only was I frustrated, but my kids I'm sure will remember this experience - and they are his future customers (or lack thereof). I love everything else about Southwest, their culture is amazing and I truly like the genuine staff. But this reserve seating stuff is garbage and I can't believe it's gone on for so long without change. Like I said in another post, you might be loading the plane faster and more efficient (equalling quicker turnaround of the aircraft), but it's much more difficult to measure the lost business from frustrated customers going elsewhere.
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Thanks. At the time I wasn't aware this happens so frequently so I just thought it was an isolated incident. But after googling and seeing the posts on the forum I can see it's a regular issue. I didn't go into detail because I wanted to keep the story on track of saving seats, but my daughter had a panic attack during the flight (first one she's ever had), couldn't feel her legs and was shaking really bad. It was a night flight, it was dark in the cabin, she didn't know how to control lighting above, the plane was pretty turbulent, she felt sick to her stomach and felt like she was going to throw-up - which added to her anxety because she didn't want to puke, all while being surrounded by people she has never seen before. I felt like a horrible Dad afterward for not just taking the seats the guy had saved. But like you said I didn't want to raise it to a security issue or anything else. After hearing about my daughters experience after, I was pissed off as a parent - especially since the other family had upper aged teenagers (17,18ish) who could have likely better coped. Besides that I was before them in boarding order. If Southwest isn't going to allow (or not take a stance on) saving of seats, why not just have the entire party of 6 load with the one person who paid $15? I tell ya why, because that's not how it's supposed to work - hence they wouldn't allow that.
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I chalked it up as a lesson learned. Next time, I'm just going to sit in the seats (with my family) and ask them if they want their article of clothes back. They can boo and hiss all they want. Rudness will get rudeness. I'm now prepared.
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So I can go on first and save every seat on the plane and then get to choose who gets to sit where? And then claim they don't have any policy that prevents me from saving seats and it's something they allow. Wow, that's amazing! Maybe save the first 10 rows of seats so I get to pick my neighbors. Preboarders and emotional support can both lead to people boarding early and saving seats for those with bad boarding placement. To that end they are the same issue. And people are good at figuring out how to work a system - yes I call them cheaters because neither program was designed for the purpose of improving others placement for picking a seat - if that were the case, they would allow the group to stand with the pre-boarder and the pre-boarder just say "they are with me, I was going to save their seat anyway".
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Well what we are finding is people are also loading early saying they have a disability with no proof and then saving seats for friends/relatives, etc who have no advanced boarding. Now why it's true that sometimes disabilities can't be seen, the ratio of disabled people seems to be very high with regard to the general public when it comes to these situations - the reason being is many non-disabled are taking advantage of the pre-loading opportunities that exist for the disabled. Even if you are disabled, you should only be allowed a person or two to help you, not get on and save six seats. It comes down to people cheating the system.
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Intrersting, didn't know that. Looks like I don't need to write my congressman as there is already a clause in the ACAA stating pretty much the same as I suggested, with regard to serivce animals. How many airlines actually enforce it is probably slim. I also wonder if it could apply also to non-service animals - ie... just someone going up and saying I have a disability. Can they ask for proof the same as it appears they can for service animals. https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/P3.SA_.HUD%20Matrix.6-28-6.pdf If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, carriers are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following: (1) The passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-- Fourth Edition (DSM IV); (2) The passenger needs the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination; (3) The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and (4) The date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.
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Yeah, I see people are abusing the disability stuff to load first and also reserve seats. Each medical case should require a doctor note to the airline containing: Doctor's name Address of the doctor's practice with medical ID number. Phone number of doctor's practice Name of person requesting the special boarding. Statement indicating the guest has a disability or other qualifying impairment under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and/or applicable state law that prevents the guest from waiting in a standard queue. Valid time period of disability Doctor's signature The note must NOT describe or indicate the nature of the disability.
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Hopefully it will reach the "tipping point" (great book by the way) and they will change it. All I can do is log my experience/displeasure and share it with others. The only real way to vote and get change on the issue is with the wallet. I for one will be seriously considering a new airline going forward. I have been loyal to this point, but this one seems like an easy fix and they just want to ignore it like it doesn't exist. Let all the cheaters be on one airline - they can fight it out. Not worth the headache to me. Competition and competitive advantages is what drives these bad policies out. If I were in a competitor airline marketing department, I'd be running commercial after commercial showing the real world experiences people get with seating and why they should choose them. I'd theme it "Southwest, disappointment before your flight leaves the ground - fly xxxxxxxx instead". I'd even have one that plays the "muscial chairs" game (played on a plane) and say "where will you sit today?". It so ludricrous. My guess is it started off as a "good idea" to get extra money for paying to get a good seat or for that matter a seat together with your family. But people are good at taking advantage of the system and finding the workarounds to those good intentions - and now it's a train out of control with nobody empowered to make a change, except the CEO who doesn't have to fly coach anyway - heck I'm sure the executives have private business planes. He/She only sees the additional revenue from the "early boarding" - I don't think they realize the money they are losing from loyal people switching airlines (much harder to measure). The person reporting up the chain doesn't want their "brilliant" revenue generating seating program they came up with to be a failure so they "sugar coat" it with "everything is going great" to the head honcho, they get a bonus, and all is good.
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Ah, but they do have a policy that says they have "open seating". Open would be the opposite of reserved. If that weren't the case and I was first on the plane, I could theoretically reserve every seat on the plane by throwing pre-printed "reserved" pieces of paper on all the seats. Heck, maybe then I could take the highest bidders for the up front seats. A black market on airlines seats per say - it must be okay since I don't see a policy against selling my "reserved" seats. Right? Or maybe I don't sell them, I just give them away to those I prefer to sit by because I don't want "bothersome" neighbors. You can see the problem with that logic. I defer back to my original post with suggestions of changes for them to make.
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04-01-2018
06:41 AM
13 Loves
My family (husband/wife/10 year old son, 12 year old daughter) flew from Arizona to Milwaukee. We checked in 24 hours early and received a relatively good boarding positon. At the designated time we boarded and as we approached the rear of the plane we saw there were 6 open seats - we thought perfect. Well turns out the seats reserved by one person – he put articles of clothes (pre-planned) on each seat “reserving” them for his family. I asked the flight attendant and the person reserving the six seats in an assertive tone about “I thought Southwest doesn't allow reserving seats” and they both just shrugged their shoulders and looked the other way. The man reserving the seats then said “my family is behind you”. What he did was cheated the system by paying for 1 early boarding fee for himself and then saving the other 5 for his family who boarded normally without paying a fee – and whom was behind me in boarding order. Not wanting to cause a scene and after observing the flight attendant was not going to help - *my* family split up into very different parts of the cabin. My family scrambled and seperated apart grabbing random seats. I personally ended up being the very last person on the plane to find a seat because I had to reverse my path, and all those behind me grabbed the forward seats as I now became the “last person” with the path reversed - even though I initially started by having a good boarding position. After searching up and down the aisle and not being able to find a seat, eventually it was figured out that a lap baby was supposed to be on the parents lap. To Southwest: Give your flight crew more training in watching for the “reserving” of seats with articles of clothing and be an *advocate* for passengers to seat based on boarding order. Don't just turn your head and ignore your policy of no reserved seats. I agree with another customer who suggested: 1) Post a policy on your website, pushing for the early boarding privilege; 2) Include a summation of the policy, i.e., NO SEATS MAY BE SAVED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, on the confirmation Email when the purchase is made; and 3) Include the statement via public address when you invite lines to form for boarding. You have to expect them to conform to principles for the good of everyone or be willing to cut them loose as a selfish customer who shouldn't belong to the SWA family. There's no half way about it. 4) Have the flight crew actively look for those violating the policy and enforce it. Your failure to act will lead to consequences for everyone involved, including yourself. It's merely a matter of time. Sincerely disturbed customer, Jamie Morgan
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