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Southwest Airlines Community

A Different Perspective

blusk
Not applicable

A lot of you are familiar with the Southwest Airlines Customer who was asked to cover up her outfit, and there has been a lot of attention devoted to this subject.  In fact, the Customer was on the Today Show this morning.  You might be interested in the perspective of one of the show's producers, Dan Fleschner.

Thanks for your comments. We are closing the comment section. Please see Colleen's new post: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/2007/09/14/wrapping-up-the-skirt-issue/
951 Comments
Maiko
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Outrageous! I couldn't believe it when I heard about the first case and today we are hearing about another. I won't be flying SouthWest until they get their act together on this issue. State your dress code clearly and then let passengers decide if they want to fly with you or not.
Sam8
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Thank you SWA for having the courage to stand up and let your employees be subjective arbiters of morals! I particularly like how incredibly uneven this moral standards have been applied. My favorite part was when, instead of nipping this in the bud and issuing a quick apology, you held your ground and created a major media disaster. Myself and trial lawyers all over the country cannot thank you enough! PS- What would I have to do to get the burlap sack concession at SWA gates? I could make a killing preventing people from being exposed to the depravity of modern fashion. Seriously, who do I talk to?
AJ5
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As an airline who has only one good thing about it, " cheap flights," southwest, you have sunk to the ultimate low. i mean really, regulating passenger attire??pleeeeeease. what rock were you hiding under when when terrorists hijacked two american planes and tore down the twin towers? do you not comprehend the words"never forget?" 9/11 was real!!! you really need to wake up step up. you put the airline industry to shame! you showed every american flying today that you really do not care about the safety of our skies, but your perverted male employee sure got his kicks by humiliating a young woman in front a plane full of people! but hey, a 40 year old male looking up someone's skirt is more important than making sure terrorists aren't on board. Take a guess if i'll be flying your perverted airline ever again. The answer is a resounding no, and that goes for everyone else i know around the country. or maybe you will . i'll be the girl in the bright blue bikini walking on board. ps, i have rights!!!
annajo
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Give me a break...I am a 28 year old woman who thinks that the way many young women dress today is horrible. I appreciate what SW did; I myself do not want to see that on an airline or anywhere else. I live in STL where we just went through a record heat wave, and extremely high humidity...so don't tell me it is because it is hot. Besides, every flight I have been on, the AC is so cold you want a jacket and pants. Do these ladies have such low self-esteem that they need to dress so provocative to get attention? Pretty sad if I do say so. I am a thin curvy woman who could definitely dress like any of these young women, but I am also a mother and think about my career...as a paralegal, no law firm or judge wants a paralegal who dresses like a skank. So just wondering if she always wants to work at Hooters or if someday she would like a real job, because she won't get one dressed like that!!! By the way: the Britney Spears look is outÃ
J_111
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72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:http://www.myspace.com/PrincessKyla i8.tinypic.com/5yk43us.gif 76.163.158.139/KylaEbbert/43170269_la.JPG img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/xXxKylaxXx/Pictures405.jpg you can check her out all you want she loves to show off
nsx
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Steve wrote: "assuming the outfit in question is indeed the same one Ms Ebbert wore for the Today Show interview, you all who support SWAÃ
FAA_Flyer
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As a 38 yr old professional living in Northern California, I have had the opportunity to fly Southwest 20 or 30 times over the past years. However, after digesting the way that Southwest has handled this matter, particularly after the fact, I can say with confidence that I will never need their services again. I hope your employees are PAYING customers - because the REAL customers are saying - ADIOS. Never again will I patronize your business. SW Sacramento, CA
Michelle21
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I LOVE IT!!!!!! I am going to have to take Southwest's side on this one.... There is a time and a place for everything...including the way you dress....that short skirt...sit down and it rises up. I'm sure the flight attendant was thinking of the possibility that this girl will need to stow her belongings overhead..raise arms, guess what, the skirt goes up as well......Thank you, no! I don't care to see that you are not a natural blonde. Save the outfit for Hooters! This girl probably gets upset when cat-calls are shot her way too! Believe me, if I were right there next to her I would have opposed the way she is dressed....and it is not because of how I look and any insecurities I may have and feel threatened either.....I happen to be 42, though look early 30s....I wear a size 2 skirt....and my top, well let's just say porn stars which they were this size and natural! If I were to dress like that (jaws would drop) and stand next to her....believe me the eyes would be on me just as much as they are on her. What part of dressing like that will get you attention good or bad does she not understand....she asked for the attention she got! Silly girl is still asking for attention by going on national television, only to embarass her self even more! she is no longer embarassed in front of 150 people (and I doubt the majority of fellow passengers even knew she was approached about her manner of dress) she is now embarassed in front of millions!! and worse, a producer in the studio has let everyone know that when she sits down...the skirt is indeed too short....wonder if she gets the hint that guys just are not attracted to that? This girl needs to understand that when she walks outside the doors of Hooters, basic decency goes into effect. Gotta love the "myspace" generation...first to complain they have no privacy...but they post their life story on myspace....and this is no different. Now, to those that slam Southwest for this saying they are hypocrits because the flight attendants used to dress the same.....key here..USED TO, they no longer do because they have wised up.......can't say that for their critics in this situation.....
Dave38
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I just came across a report of a second incident (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/13/airline.dress.ap/index.html), and by all means let me begin with: I wasn't there for either incident, so I can be certain that I don't have all the relevant details. That said, however, there seems to be an increasing discussion of what is or isn't offensive in our culture. In this case, it's specifically "appropriate dress," but the details aren't important. What's important is that I fear the discussion originates mostly from a very small but very vocal minority, and doesn't reflect the views of the average citizen. In this case, as has been stated repeatedly, Southwest Airlines does not have an official passenger dress code, and while many service providers in many different industries "reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason," I don't really see that, without a policy in place, one flight attendant's opinion as to what constitutes "good taste" is an acceptable reason to harrass a paying customer. The broader issue, however, is: to what extent can a vocal minority inflict their views on everyone else? Yes it's a "free country," but with freedom comes responsibility, and in the case of "free speech" that means you have the right to speak out about issues, but not the right to force others to conform to your boundaries. People who believe they should be able to go forth into the world and have nothing offend them rank right up there with people who believe they should experience no pain and suffering during their lifetimes, or else they should be monetarily compensated for it. The world is a dangerous place, you might get hurt, think about that before you leave your house, and don't believe you have the "right" to a multi-million-dollar settlement if you -do- get hurt. The world is also often offensive. Too bad. If you have a delicate constitution, don't leave your charming small-town / suburb / living-complex / whatever, but don't demand that the world stop offending you. I'm offended every day by the blatantly (and often, dangerously) stupid people commuting on the highways with me. But they're not going to stop commuting just because I complain about them. I have to do my part to get where I'm going as safely as possible, knowing that they're out there. Same goes for other forms of offense and as well for danger. Do your part to keep yourself safe and comfortable, but understand that a variety of people and conditions exist in your world, and deal with people and situations appropriately. And keep in mind, people might find you offensive as well, but have the "good taste" not to say anything about it....
Mike1
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First of all this is supposed to be a free country. But this sounds like religious oriented shit that would come out of Saudi Arabia or Iran, Where RADICAL Islam dictates what you can wear; And where "modesty" police roam the shops making sure guys and girls are separtated, and not showing "too much" skin. Whats so bad about a woman's legs? Do these people think that there is something wicked about normal beauty? Remember that not so long ago, woman could get arrested for wearing pants in public. Because the religious extremists claimed that it was "to masculan". etc. This whole idea of so called "modesty" is religious oriented 100%. Its all apart of religious intolerance. We were all born naked. Docters see people naked. I suppose it would be considered very immodest by the religious right. The steward who couldnt see a young womens legs without throwing a "tantrum" clearly is the one with the problem. What about all the so called "Religious conservitive politicians and evangalists who were caught in their hypocritical acts. Ironicly the very things they denounced.
Nicole10
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Okay - so everyone is demanding SWA state their dresscode. Here it is: "In compliance with state and federal regulations regarding Indecent Exposure, visible genetalia are not acceptable and passengers will be asked to change or cover themselves." Happy now? Jeez - it's not a right-wing conspiracy against young women - just decency! Thanks SWA! You will ALWAYS have my business!
Eugene_Bueno
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Wake up America! A second woman, dressed not violating any laws or publicly allowed cloth guidelines was threatened with removal unless she covered up and had to fly with a blanket wrapped around her! Wow! Has the public seen the outfit the second girl was humiliated over? It reached below the knees and no breasts were exposed in any fashion. Cleavage yes, but zero body parts were visible. The woman was another exceptionally attractive girl with a very fit sexy body. See a pattern here? Obviously Southwest is exposing a theme here about their cultural beliefs. We live in a free and evolved society that allows individuals the right to not be harrased by others because they have different tastes/lifestyles. Who the hell do you think you are Southwest! You are out of control right wing, holy roller, intolerant organization that wants to promote the type of society like those in the wonderful Middle East where women can be killed for showing too much skin. Talk about dangerous! And you continue to defend your policies and culture! Brian Lusk, Southwest Manager of Customer Communication smugly directed everybody to read where the Today Show producer pointed out that the first girl thrown off a plane did "flash" the TV audience due to the skirt being so short. Hey Brian, the Today Show camera was several feet away pointed directly between her legs. Your airplane seats have about 18 inches between knees and the seat in front of you. When Brian travels does he crawl down the aisles on all fours with head and eyes at crotch level and stick his head between passenger's feet in order to "get offended" by a short skirt flashing him? Last time I walked down an airplane aisle I could not see up any woman's skirt. Maybe I was not trying hard enough! Southwest will gain some right wing nuts as new customers as a result of this, but they will lose customers 10 fold over for sure. I'm gone that is for sure!
Sarah_E
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Way to go Southwest!!! I am a loyal customer and will remain so. I am sick to death of looking at so much skin in public. They may have a right to wear it, but that doesn't mean that my family and I have to be subjected to it. Maybe there should be sleaze or no-sleaze sections on the plane? (Kind of like smoking and non?)
Leah4
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I am going to post some of the things I LUV about Southwest: Excellent service/employees Great on-time performance It's a fun airline (I have more fun flying SWA than I do any other airline!) No assigned seating Excellent safety record The Company does a lot of altruistic work for others Great fares Casual uniforms I LUV the theme painted planes There are others, but I'll stop there for now. To the employees-keep your chins up! Everything will be okay! :) I LUV SWA! 🙂
Chester_White
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I applaud Southwest. I'm a 48 y.o. hetero married man, and I like looking at women as much as anyone, but Southwest has the absolute right to deny service to anyone flashing his or her underwear. Case closed.
Julio1
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I am a frequent business traveler. There are a lot of aggravating people on airplanes, but this girl is the least of them. In fact, for most men, Kyla would be a welcome travel companion. If Southwest had more Kylas on their flights, it would be the airline of my choice. Alas, based on Southwest's response, or lack of, I will not choose to fly Southwest again. I fly over 150 flights per year. Not 3 per year like those who have now decided to make Southwest their choice for air travel. And, like many others posting here, I'm going discourage others from flying Southwest. So, now all you supporters of Southwest's actions, can fly liberated from hot women. And be comforted by all the stinky, loud, boorish people that surround you. Oh, good luck on that bottom line Southwest.
Bethany_L
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Southwest, you still have not apologized. The American public is disgusted with your lack of a response.
A_Southwest_Fan
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I would like to congratulate SWA once again for standing up and not letting some "air headed blond" win! As a regular passenger of SWA, I also have rights and dont feel like I have to be "subjected" to some cheap looking not very pretty and obviously not very smart passeger. Why could she have not bought something else to wear on the return that looked "decent". I am sure there were shops somewhere in Tucson that sold clothing. In my opinion, she seems very insecure about herself....she seems to be imitating Paris Hilton! If this gal ever came into my place of business to interview for a position, sad to say her application would go in file 13~
chris_laughton
Not applicable
I think that Southwest, as a privately run business, does have the right to 'refuse service' to anyone as long as they are not part of a protected class (i.e. ADA, race, etc).... and setting limits on attire seems to be reasonably within that - many restaurants and nightclubs require 'proper dress' and this is widely accepted. However, as a matter of courtesy, some guidelines should be published if this practice is going to be continued. Any lawsuit or the like from either of the women involved is way over the top and I should think, legally groundless. The law and airline policies give broad authority (too much, in my opinion) to front-line staff, to enforce rules pretty much however they want. Having said all that, however, I think Southwest messed up big time here. The outfits worn by either of the two women, while on the skimpy side, would not be considered out of the ordinary on any college campus, public area, bar, or what have you. You can lament the sad state of fashion, if you like, but it's hard to argue their attire violated 'community standards'. It is particularly ironic that Southwest is involved in this as well, given some of the uniforms and promotions your own company featured in the 1970s. Come to think of it, a woman wearing your offical 1970s uniform would probably be kicked off one of your flights today! Finally, I think the company PR response has further hurt the situation. It's even started to look like a gender-bias issue because some women are arguing that a man would never be questioned about his outfit. I think the real reason for that is that men simply don't dress like that, but it looks bad nonetheless, and threatens to blow up in your face. All-in-all, was southwest airlines legally entitled to confront these two women? Sure. Was it the best business decision on your part? I don't think so.
tls
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I find it interesting that so many of the comments on this blog that support Southwest's position on this issue appear to be written by other women. I also find it interesting that most of the comments that contain atrocious spelling and grammar are also from individuals in support of the airline's actions. Most of the latter should take an English and/or writing class before adding their two cents' worth on such boards. (Then maybe the rest of us will actually be able to understand what you're attempting to convey.)
Sonshinegiver
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I was glad to hear about the "dress code". It's getting so decent men can't go out in public without getting their eyes full of someone else's wife or girlfriend. I'll definitely continue to fly with you Southwest!
James_E
Not applicable
I think that it is a businesses right to decide what is acceptable to them. I mean some businesses have a "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" policy. A business reserves the right to serve and not serve who they please. Southwest was right in the fact that, that is their decision. If you don't like the fact that they don't allow that on their aircraft fly someone else. It's that simple. They weren't discriminating by age, race, gender or religion. So Southwest Airlines didn't not break any laws. They were practicing their legal right. It's irrelevant that people in schools dress that way they have a right to their own standard. Such as restaurants requiring a Coat and Tie. And it doesn't matter what the people before them have done as you well see in the link I posted. A business does not have to have a dress code to enforce one. Laws do not regulate any of a businesses regulations regarding to dress code as long as they aren't an OSHA violation. Half these people are speaking from what they think is right and not what is legal. Law does not regulate businesses right to refuse customers based on dress OSHA aside.
Anonymous2019
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The 'lady' in question is no lady. The 'lady' is a tramp. Her 15 minutes of fame have expired.
emery_blau
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Shame on you Southwest. I didn't realize that you were the Moral Majority airline. If there is a dresscode, you should publish it - and clearly if you ban miniskirts and tight shirts, you will lose ALL your business. This is really a disgusting matter, and you should apologize publicly to the passenger in question, and state your dresscode (or lack thereof). I'm very very disappointed in the airline, and its treatment of this passenger. Blech!
Tony_for_freedo
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Hold it! Let's take a completely different stand on this. If anyone finds another travellers clothing choice offensive or uncomfortable, then let THEM get off the plane and take another flight. In the land of choices,if it really makes someone that uncomfortable to have to view another persons fashion sense, then just get up and take another flight. That inconvienience will be a small price to pay compared to the peace of mind one would achieve. Idiots!!
Dale9
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If SWA wants to become dress code enforcers, they should begin with so many of the slobs who climb on board looking/smelling as if they just ran on from mowing the yard in 100 plus Dallas temps. Dress code has long since gone by the wayside. SWA made a major mistake in making a horrible example of their stupidity by humiliating this young lady. They need to spend more time trying to get their flights on time and less on establishing dress code based on the whims of individual agents of their airline. But it appears that it was a good publicity "act" on SWA's part. Fly your airplanes better and leave personal dress to paying customers. Or post your dress code so you can eliminate the slobs as well.....
Darlene_Kepner
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I would like Southwest to e-mail me and let me know the attire that should be worn on my upcoming flight. Come on Southwest pick your issues. This girl was not at all offensive. She is attractive well put together and stylish. Yes her skirt was short. How many people on the plane actually even knew she was there. If she was showing anything, maybe the appropriate thing to do would have to whisper in her ear, "I just thought you would like to know that your underwear show when you raise your arms." Actually that would have been good customer service. Instead you chose to humilate her. Bad choice-now Southwest in a laughing stock and I am sure they will have to give her some cash in an undisclosed settlement. I hope it does not happen to me because I will be standing beside her standing up for our right to dress ourselves without judgement. Would you have kicked off the young man wearing his jeans on his upper thighs and his boxers hanging out--I find that offensive.
allie
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Sad that a great airline like SW has fallen so deeply into the disciplinary mire. If your people need something extra to do in terms of regulating the already over-regulated traveler, have them work up a process to deal with children who spend an entire three hour flight screaming while mom and dad do nothing.
Stacey4
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Thank-you SWA for stepping in when passengers have total disregard for other passengers. We can turn the channel or choose another resturant, but let's face it, we fly SWA for the great fares and shouldn't have to be subjected to other passengers ignorance ( or their body fluids on the seats). *companion pass holder*
Cygnus
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Ah, seminar posters. Welcome, one and all. I applaud Southwest for being a bastion of modesty in these decadent times, and have no problem at all with what they did. An admitted SWA apologist, Paul T.
Ted_B
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Thank you SWA for being a bastion of relief and a breath of fresh air from those that think you have to dress for the bedroom to be accepted in society. These ladies goal is to be appealing in order to seek the attention of men for which they receive their worth as a human being. They donÃ
harold
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thank you, thank you for being bold enough to take a stand on indecent exposure. As I watched the Today show I had to laugh as I felt they were trying to say there was nothing wrong with her attire only to notice that when she was asked to sit down she was not able to do so without showing all of america her underwear. How pathetic of her to even think her appearance was decent. As the father of seven girls and 3 boys and as one who has spent many hours teaching modesty and it's effects, I applaud you all the way and only wish that more companies would take a stand.
Jim_M_-_Boston_
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I understand there was a second young lady embarrassed by SA who was properly dressed in a very nice respectable halter top style dress. Where do we live? The Middle East? Before you know it, we will have SA caving in to a few religious whack jobs and handing out a nice stylish Big Black Burka to all female customers. Maybe on face value this is just silly entertainment but, think about it? There is a much bigger picture here. Is this the direction America is willing to go? I HOPE NOT! Oh Ya, Did I metion I will NEVER FLY SA again. Get a grip SA!
Bynum
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Southwest.... WOW! You have received a lot of customers who are now angry. I have to say that you all were in the right though. I mean her skirt was very inappropriate. I saw it on the TODAY show and she claims how deeply sad she was. We are also throwing in "I had a doctors appointment" Goodness she is going to have a good case now. THANKS SOUTHWEST FOR BEING THE GREATEST AIRLINE EVER!!
Chuck_Clark
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Apologize!! And fire that flight attendant. If one of my employees acted as arbitrary as yours and applied personal preferences as oppossed to company policy they would be gone immediately. If you were the only airline in town you could probably get away with this........you're not! I fly Southwest a lot on business. This is making me re-think my airline choice.
blusk
Not applicable
thanks to everyone for their comments. We are shutting off the commentss on this post. For additional info please see Colleen's new post : http://www.blogsouthwest.com/2007/09/14/wrapping-up-the-skirt-issue Brian
Adam13
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Thank you someone for caring about modesty! I'll be sure to take SW if given the chance.
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What about follow up stories? Or did the lawyers prevail? I still wish for the ol' days of SWA and a the good corporate culture!
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